Is the concept of God good?

gabby

11-10-2005, 10:22 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

docomo

11-10-2005, 10:41 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

What’s the point?:confused:

gabby

11-10-2005, 11:05 PM

What’s the point?:confused:

The point is; You get disappointed when your prayer is not answered. I think there are some more serious instances where you can possibly convince to believe that the very thought of God does more harm than good. Having said that. It is noit necessarily the Christian concept of God but also other sects like Islam and Hindu.

makulit

11-10-2005, 11:21 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

I am a hindu. I dont believe that the concept of God is positively harmful. If prayers are not answered, its time to do some soul searching. Ask yourself what you are doing wrong or you take it as a test from God. God makes you strong. Prayers alone is nonsense. Man should try and then only prayers help.

I pray to God to thank him for everything. I havent been asking anything from God for a very very very long time …

gabby

11-10-2005, 11:37 PM

I am a hindu. I dont believe that the concept of God is positively harmful. If prayers are not answered, its time to do some soul searching. Ask yourself what you are doing wrong or you take it as a test from God. God makes you strong. Prayers alone is nonsense. Man should try and then only prayers help.

I pray to God to thank him for everything. I havent been asking anything from God for a very very very long time …

How does prayer help? Why should God test you or people in general? If God makes people strong, is it the cause why people kill other people in his name, to show that they have been made strong by God. Filipinos have been praying for ages but nothing seems happening. So again. Is believing God good or harmful?

docomo

11-10-2005, 11:44 PM

The point is; You get disappointed when your prayer is not answered. I think there are some more serious instances where you can possibly convince to believe that the very thought of God does more harm than good. Having said that. It is noit necessarily the Christian concept of God but also other sects like Islam and Hindu.

… From what I understand …“Prayer” is more about thanking for what you have rather than asking for more…You can do all those begging things while praying to God, but it doesn’t mean he’s going to heed your request ,or at least in the way you personally want to see it happen. God is about humility,among many other things :slight_smile:

makulit

11-10-2005, 11:44 PM

How does prayer help? Why should God test you or people in general? If God makes people strong, is it the cause why people kill other people in his name, to show that they have been made strong by God. Filipinos have been praying for ages but nothing seems happening. So again. Is believing God good or harmful?

why dont you tell us what you think about it?

docomo

11-10-2005, 11:47 PM

So again. Is believing God good or harmful?

GOOD … satisfied?:wink:

You’re not bringing this whole question of whether God really exists or not… don’t you?

crister

11-10-2005, 11:50 PM

hmmmmm. for me…i believe na we should not QUESTION God’s Will.

MX3

11-11-2005, 12:04 AM

The point is; You get disappointed when your prayer is not answered. I think there are some more serious instances where you can possibly convince to believe that the very thought of God does more harm than good. Having said that. It is noit necessarily the Christian concept of God but also other sects like Islam and Hindu.

Would you rather that a person not believe in God so that he will never be disappointed?

Don’t you think that it is infinitely better to believe in a God, that way, you will always have someone to run to and never lose Hope?

This is my first post, BTW. What a way to start!:wink:

docomo

11-11-2005, 12:08 AM

Would you rather that a person not believe in God so that he will never be disappointed?

Don’t you think that it is infinitely better to believe in a God, that way, you will always have someone to run to and never lose Hope.

This is my first post, BTW. What a way to start!:wink:

Welcome to Timog Forum … enjoy "gabbys thread"while it last :slight_smile:

gabby

11-11-2005, 12:20 AM

GOOD … satisfied;)

You’re not bringing this whole question of whether God really exists or not… don’t you?

Let us just open our mind for awhile and consider the realities that happening around us. You see. Of all the conflicts around the world it is man’s faith in God that makes the world so bloody troubled. Phil. Religion is partly if not wholly to blame why we are still backward.

I would like to play the devil’s advocate for a change:p Now if you think the concept of God is for good how come much of the wold is in pain? Say for example Philippines and Bangladesh in terms of depravity. or most of the African states.

MX3

11-11-2005, 12:20 AM

Thanks, Docomo. Pero bakit while it lasts? Mawawala na ba…

MX3

11-11-2005, 12:22 AM

Let us just open our mind for awhile and consider the realities that happening around us. You see. Of all the conflicts around the world it is man’s faith in God that makes the world so bloody troubled. Phil. Religion is partly if not wholly to blame why we are still backward.

I would like to play the devil’s advocate for a change:p Now if you think the concept of God is for good how come much of the wold is in pain? Say for example Philippines and Bangladesh in terms of depravity. or most of the African states.

The answer is simple: FREEWILL.

gabby

11-11-2005, 12:31 AM

hmmmmm. for me…i believe na we should not QUESTION God’s Will.

Actually I am not sure what you mean by God’s will. Will for me is from someone who physically exist and literally exercising his power by trying to persude another individual to do what he wants.

Another thing which has quite intrigued me is; what is God’s will? I have a question for you my dear Crister. Is it God’s will for PGMA to stay until now in Malacanang?

gabby

11-11-2005, 12:32 AM

Thanks, Docomo. Pero bakit while it lasts? Mawawala na ba…

Well done MX3. I was about to say that but you beat me to it.

docomo

11-11-2005, 12:40 AM

Thanks, Docomo. Pero bakit while it lasts? Mawawala na ba…

you mentioned kasi … what a way to start … sa akin naman enjoy the thread of gabby while it lasts :smiley:

(inayos ko na po ha)

gabby

11-11-2005, 12:49 AM

Would you rather that a person not believe in God so that he will never be disappointed?

Don’t you think that it is infinitely better to believe in a God, that way, you will always have someone to run to and never lose Hope?

This is my first post, BTW. What a way to start!:wink:

Hello MX3. Welcome nga pala sa Timog Forum. Nalimutan ko kanina ang pag-welcome sa iyo. Sana mag-enjoy ka dito. Mababait ang mga tao dito lalo na ang mga moderators. Pero kuwidaw ka parang mga demonyo yon :smiley: . Pag-nagkamali ka hindi ka sasantosin nun. :stuck_out_tongue: Which is gusto ko. Ang batas ay batas kung baga. Sana ganyan na rin sa Pilipinas di ba?:slight_smile:

So your understandin of God is just an imaginary someone who is not there but you created to exist so that when you are in despair you can safely take it all off your chest and presto, makes you feel good. Don’t you think it is just delusion? A minor desease inferior only to schizophrenia.

gabby

11-11-2005, 12:51 AM

you mentioned kasi … what a way to start … sa akin naman enjoy the thread of gabby while it lasts :smiley:

(inayos ko na po ha)

LOL:D Bakla ka talaga huh!:stuck_out_tongue:

MX3

11-11-2005, 12:54 AM

you mentioned kasi … what a way to start … sa akin naman enjoy the thread of gabby while it lasts :smiley:

(inayos ko na po ha)

Thanks for answering docomo. Kala ko kasi you were referring to Timog Forum. Kakasali ko lang e. Sayang naman kung mawawala na. Sorry, Off-topic.

MX3

11-11-2005, 01:00 AM

Hello MX3. Welcome nga pala sa Timog Forum. Nalimutan ko kanina ang pag-welcome sa iyo. Sana mag-enjoy ka dito. Mababait ang mga tao dito lalo na ang mga moderators. Pero kuwidaw ka parang mga demonyo yon :smiley: . Pag-nagkamali ka hindi ka sasantosin nun. :stuck_out_tongue: Which is gusto ko. Ang batas ay batas kung baga. Sana ganyan na rin sa Pilipinas di ba?:slight_smile:

So your understandin of God is just an imaginary someone who is not there but you created to exist so that when you are in despair you can safely take it all off your chest and presto, makes you feel good. Don’t you think it is just delusion? A minor desease inferior only to schizophrenia.

Thanks Gabby.

Well, that is not exactly my personal understanding. Pero I was just giving you an example of one of the good things that can be derived from believing that there is a God. Notice that I used the word believing instead of saying “creating a God.” Because when you merely create a God, then, naturally, you will not put your hopes in him. Putting your hope on something that you merely created may be “delusional”, but putting your hope on someone you believe in, IMHO, is not.

han

11-11-2005, 09:51 AM

i agree with you mx3.

maybe, what you ought to do first is to know God. actually, you wont know HIM, unless He chooses to. dont worry, you are on the right track. asking questions like these, means you are in search of God. But He probably wants you to get mosquioto bites first, you know what i mean.

i can recommend “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis, one book read across denominatios. it says nothing new, but explain a lot to the modern man about God and Christianity. and if you really want to be a devil’s advocate, i recommend you too to read the “Screwtape Letters” also by CS Lewis. THen you will see how the enemy works. these are good literature, and very engaging to modern readers, kaya hindi ka mabo-bored.

gabby

11-11-2005, 10:03 AM

Thanks Gabby.

Well, that is not exactly my personal understanding. Pero I was just giving you an example of one of the good things that can be derived from believing that there is a God. Notice that I used the word believing instead of saying “creating a God.” Because when you merely create a God, then, naturally, you will not put your hopes in him. Putting your hope on something that you merely created may be “delusional”, but putting your hope on someone you believe in, IMHO, is not.

Which will take back to the question that believing God is doing more harm than good.

gabby

11-11-2005, 10:09 AM

i agree with you mx3.

maybe, what you ought to do first is to know God. actually, you wont know HIM, unless He chooses to. dont worry, you are on the right track. asking questions like these, means you are in search of God. But He probably wants you to get mosquioto bites first, you know what i mean.

i can recommend “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis, one book read across denominatios. it says nothing new, but explain a lot to the modern man about God and Christianity. and if you really want to be a devil’s advocate, i recommend you too to read the “Screwtape Letters” also by CS Lewis. THen you will see how the enemy works. these are good literature, and very engaging to modern readers, kaya hindi ka mabo-bored.

How do you know that God chooses one to reveal himself. Have you been chosen by God? Do you have an intimate understanding or knowledge about him? If you do then maybe you can try to answer my question that the concept of God is positively harmful. I want to know.

I might try to read the book when I get the chance thanks.

leikavie05

11-11-2005, 11:50 AM

Share ko lng po , kung gusto nyo po ng Biblical answer sa inyong tanong , at ng kahit anong klaseng tanong ukol sa pananampalataya d2 nyo po mala2man http://www.angdatingdaan.or g or www.angdatingdaan.tv (http://www.angdatingdaan.tv ) at puwede rin kayong magtanong ng live! sa live program segment "Itanong mo kay Soriano ! Biblia ang sasagot… mapa2nood po sa buong mundo thru internet webcast, at Globecast naman po sa US & Canada …Thanks po…:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

http://www.angdatingdaan.tv :slight_smile:

http://www.angdatingdaan.or g :slight_smile:

Raiden

11-11-2005, 12:10 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

I don’t believe that the concept of God is positively harmful, but I believe the concept of religion is. Religion is more often than not used to influence people with certain ideologies, so they could be easily manipulated for the benefit of the Religion and religious leader.

FYI, I was raised as a Catholic.

This is the way I perceive God.
This whole world of ours is a test from God. Our life is a test from God. God does nothing but watch how we live our lives. This test is used by God to determine our status in the next life.

japino77

11-11-2005, 05:36 PM

Im a roman catholic and i believe and have faith in God. but I think Gabby has a point. what if theres really none? did you people already saw God? isa pang question is, is there really a heaven and hell? paka-isipin nyo… im sorry but what if He’s just an imaginary thing that some people invented?:frowning: sa question ni Gabby, i think it depends on how much or what kind of faith a person is to say if the concept of God is good or harmful.

again, i belive and have faith in God…:slight_smile:

Little Johnny

11-11-2005, 06:55 PM

Im a roman catholic and i believe and have faith in God. but I think Gabby has a point. what if theres really none? did you people already saw God? isa pang question is, is there really a heaven and hell? paka-isipin nyo… im sorry but what if He’s just an imaginary thing that some people invented?:frowning: sa question ni Gabby, i think it depends on how much or what kind of faith a person is to say if the concept of God is good or harmful.

again, i belive and have faith in God…:slight_smile:

wow! good questions japino77! I myself have asked these questions many times before. And it always led to the same singe answer: FAITH. The belief that there a higher power out there looking after us; that no matter how bad the world around us turns out to be, there is hope that good things will come; that after every storm is a rainbow; that when the time comes that we have to leave this earth, there will be a better place for us to stay; that even though we were not treated fairly on earth, reward will be given for our good deed and justice will prevail; that if all else fails, we kneel to pray and suddenly there is hope of a brighter tomorrow.

I remember “The Da Vinci Code”, the part where it was discovered that Jesus Christ was to proven to be just a plain idealistic man starting some brotherhood of his own, calling himself “Son of God”, when in fact he indeed lived a normal mortal life and even had a wife. When the King of that time discovered this truth (sorry, don’t remember the name), he somehow bent it and told his people that this Man was indeed the “Son of God”, that he was sent from heaven to redeem man. Then the people had faith. Can you imagine what would happen if the king announced otherwise? There would chaos, unrest, I don’t know what more.

My point is this…. I think we need this “FAITH”. We need something to hold on to when things get shaky. We need a lifeline during the times we are at great heights. We need this “GOD” (existent or not) with such great power to turn things around. We need to know that a “PRAYER” can make us sane enough and help us make it through a rough day. We need a “HEAVEN” that will be our final destination after our life in this world.

So what if there is indeed NO God, would you feel any better?

seanty

11-11-2005, 07:19 PM

Share ko lng po , kung gusto nyo po ng Biblical answer sa inyong tanong , at ng kahit anong klaseng tanong ukol sa pananampalataya d2 nyo po mala2man http://www.angdatingdaan.or g or www.angdatingdaan.tv (http://www.angdatingdaan.tv ) at puwede rin kayong magtanong ng live! sa live program segment "Itanong mo kay Soriano ! Biblia ang sasagot… mapa2nood po sa buong mundo thru internet webcast, at Globecast naman po sa US & Canada …Thanks po…:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

http://www.angdatingdaan.tv :slight_smile:

http://www.angdatingdaan.or g :slight_smile:
leikavie05, off topic lang, meron na bang gawain dito ang dating daan?

docomo

11-11-2005, 09:11 PM

wow! good questions japino77! I myself have asked these questions many times before. And it always led to the same singe answer: FAITH. The belief that there a higher power out there looking after us; that no matter how bad the world around us turns out to be, there is hope that good things will come; that after every storm is a rainbow; that when the time comes that we have to leave this earth, there will be a better place for us to stay; that even though we were not treated fairly on earth, reward will be given for our good deed and justice will prevail; that if all else fails, we kneel to pray and suddenly there is hope of a brighter tomorrow.

I remember “The Da Vinci Code”, the part where it was discovered that Jesus Christ was to proven to be just a plain idealistic man starting some brotherhood of his own, calling himself “Son of God”, when in fact he indeed lived a normal mortal life and even had a wife. When the King of that time discovered this truth (sorry, don’t remember the name), he somehow bent it and told his people that this Man was indeed the “Son of God”, that he was sent from heaven to redeem man. Then the people had faith. Can you imagine what would happen if the king announced otherwise? There would chaos, unrest, I don’t know what more.

My point is this…. I think we need this “FAITH”. We need something to hold on to when things get shaky. We need a lifeline during the times we are at great heights. We need this “GOD” (existent or not) with such great power to turn things around. We need to know that a “PRAYER” can make us sane enough and help us make it through a rough day. We need a “HEAVEN” that will be our final destination after our life in this world.

So what if there is indeed NO God, would you feel any better?

…You read the book “Da Vinci Code” very mind-stirring diba po?..reading that book somehow test your faith… surprisingly hindi ito na ban ng vatican …the truth,fiction hmmm
…read the "fact " also litol johnny…all description ,artwork,architectur e,documents,and secret rituals in this novel are accurate… :slight_smile:
…On a personal note , evidence for “GOD” is everywhere, from the air we breathe,the sun that shines,to the earth we walk on…it is totally up to you to see what you see in regards to God and how he is making an impact …but remember he is everywhere … so keep the faith:)

adechan

11-11-2005, 09:38 PM

How do you know that God chooses one to reveal himself. Have you been chosen by God? Do you have an intimate understanding or knowledge about him? If you do then maybe you can try to answer my question that the concept of God is positively harmful. I want to know.

I might try to read the book when I get the chance thanks.

Gabby

Is the concept of God positively harmful?

No. God is the creator of all. He is called our Father. Human creation fell to the death of sin because of disobedience. He gave everything to human, even the “freedom.” God must have been forsaken us totally and let us dwell with the power of satan … the fallen angel who took pride with himself to sit on the throne of the Creator.
But God created human so special, He created us with his own image, and He gave us the His spirit. But that spirit was been dead because of sin. So here he send his only Son “Christ” to be the perfect lamb. Because He loves us so much. (I will cut it here because it will going to be so long)
Imagine a Father who send His only begotten Son just to be a ransom for disobidient human beings?
The history of the world is so long enough. To summarize. Let’s find a shortcut on a father-children relationship. DISCIPLINE. When a child ask for something, they were so eager to receive it. But the father don’t always give it right away or even deny it. Because the father knows what will be the result if he give the children what they want. Sometimes it is alright to give the children what they want, but they needed to learn lessons first. And there were also hard headed children. They do not listen, they do not follow, they keep doing what is not supposed to be, and there the father give warnings, teachings, alternative punishments and disciplinary acts. But usually, the children can’t understand those. Not until the time of maturity came. And like us, looking back when we were child, we understand why our parents did those things to us. And we understand. And we see our faults. We also see our parents’ mistakes, and learn from it. But God is perfect. We might not understand things right now. But as we continue to trust and obey He will let us know it and be blessed with wisdom of righteousness.

God is our Father. He is Holy. He is perfect. He will not want harm for us. And He is faithful and giving and flourish those who trust and obey in Him … through Christ Jesus.

adechan

11-11-2005, 09:51 PM

God wanted to reveal himself to all.

the problem is we are so occupied to the world affairs, and hardly find time to notice what the inside needed.

we have body, soul and spirit. 1 cor 15:40-44

Face God and confront God, honestly and humbly in straightforward prayers. Ask His wisdom deeply from your heart. Ask His truth. Ask who is Jesus? Ask if He is true. If your still not sure whom the God to call, call the God who created all things on universe and on earth. Ask humbly, and be honest that you want Him. Seek Him. And you will know that you are called. REMEMBER TO Be humble and honest.

crister

11-11-2005, 10:00 PM

Another thing which has quite intrigued me is; what is God’s will? I have a question for you my dear Crister. Is it God’s will for PGMA to stay until now in Malacanang?

not everdearest gabby,

yup, dahil naniniwala ako na lahat ng bagay sa mundo ay may dahilan at ang Diyos lang ang nakakaalam nun…

bayaan mo…kokonsulta ako sa kasamahan ko, kasi lahat ng mga bagay o katanungan ay may mababasa sa Bible at hindi dapat maging basehan ang kahit na anong libro lamang.

saka hindi lang naman Pilipinas ang dapat gawin example, marami pang ibang bansa ang higit na naghihirap compare sa Pilipinas.

@seanty
yung isang kasama namin na nagpunta dito member sya ng ADD, every week napunta sya sa Tokyo kasi naka-hook up daw ang mga member na andito sa Japan sa Online Program ng ADD sa ch 37. ican ask him the details and contact person kung kailangan mo.

thommas

11-11-2005, 10:06 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?
are you asking us or just yourself?

Stacie Fil

11-11-2005, 10:42 PM

In my opinion its not about the concept of God or beleiving in Him that makes good or bad. The problem is us, to whether we not only know Him, but if ever He even acknowledges us to be one of what He had made and if we are one with Him.

I see most of our TF members here are knowlegable people and informed. And others way too much informed and too much TV/movie also.:smiley: joke lang po.

Knowing somebody, understanding what is true or not deals more to a relationship. God is real as the air we breath, the light and warm of the sun each day, the changing of the season and the passing of time. God is real as the life you bear and not like the concept of matrix movie we saw.

I know most of us are wondering about life, its future and the suffering we always endure, God is niether the problem nor the one to blame.

Sabi nga ni Inang at payo nuong maliliit pa kami,“buntot mo hatak mo”. Sa ingles daw, what we saw, we reap.

Can I ask you Mr Gabby a question? Are you a communist or has read stuff on its teaching or perhaps had attended leftist workshop during your HS/college time(No offense meant pls,tanong lang po.pis tayo). I respect Marx and his desire to elleviate man from its suffering. I only hope that we shouldnt be reminded again on what has transpired in Russia and its people as the mother of that ideology. In which it also accept and claimed that after so much decade, they had proven that it doesnt work.

Maybe it shall be a consolation to just be reminded about Paschal waiger. I dont have the exact words, but I guess it goes like these. If I believe in God and later found out He doesnt exist, I had live a good life. Thou If I do not believe in Him and later I found that He is real, I …(sorry got lost on that part)

So at any rate,if you think you shall gain,become good,succesful and resolve world problem bringing all in peace(not pieces). I then would agree to disagree.

Huhhh! Just a big question now in my head :confused: . If God is not real and we are not part of His creation, I cannot accept na parang utot lang tayong lumabas.Hard to be just part of random mutation(which is proven not true or realistic),na tyamba lamang at walang direct reason and purpose. Without one original Divine Creator, how can man be brothers,one world family and attain the true peace?

fremsite

11-11-2005, 10:57 PM

Huhhh! Just a big question now in my head :confused: . If God is not real and we are not part of His creation, I cannot accept na parang utot lang tayong lumabas.

ahehehehe… natawa yata ako dito Stacie Fil san …:smiley:
ok… read mode lang po ako …:stuck_out_tongue:

Stacie Fil

11-11-2005, 11:40 PM

Huhhh! Just a big question now in my head :confused: . If God is not real and we are not part of His creation, I cannot accept na parang utot lang tayong lumabas.

ahehehehe… natawa yata ako dito Stacie Fil san …:smiley:
ok… read mode lang po ako …:stuck_out_tongue:

Glad to make you laugh Fremsite. Keep smiling!

docomo

11-12-2005, 12:00 AM

ang tagal ni gabby … enjoy ako sa mga side comments nya:D

gabby

11-12-2005, 12:22 AM

I don’t believe that the concept of God is positively harmful, but I believe the concept of religion is. Religion is more often than not used to influence people with certain ideologies, so they could be easily manipulated for the benefit of the Religion and religious leader.

FYI, I was raised as a Catholic.

This is the way I perceive God.
This whole world of ours is a test from God. Our life is a test from God. God does nothing but watch how we live our lives. This test is used by God to determine our status in the next life.

Religion is God.

I still maintain that believing God is more harmful than good.

gabby

11-12-2005, 12:24 AM

Im a roman catholic and i believe and have faith in God. but I think Gabby has a point. what if theres really none? did you people already saw God? isa pang question is, is there really a heaven and hell? paka-isipin nyo… im sorry but what if He’s just an imaginary thing that some people invented?:frowning: sa question ni Gabby, i think it depends on how much or what kind of faith a person is to say if the concept of God is good or harmful.

again, i belive and have faith in God…:slight_smile:

. . . and does your faith makes the world better?

gabby

11-12-2005, 12:36 AM

wow! good questions japino77! I myself have asked these questions many times before. And it always led to the same singe answer: FAITH. The belief that there a higher power out there looking after us; that no matter how bad the world around us turns out to be, there is hope that good things will come; that after every storm is a rainbow; that when the time comes that we have to leave this earth, there will be a better place for us to stay; that even though we were not treated fairly on earth, reward will be given for our good deed and justice will prevail; that if all else fails, we kneel to pray and suddenly there is hope of a brighter tomorrow.

I remember “The Da Vinci Code”, the part where it was discovered that Jesus Christ was to proven to be just a plain idealistic man starting some brotherhood of his own, calling himself “Son of God”, when in fact he indeed lived a normal mortal life and even had a wife. When the King of that time discovered this truth (sorry, don’t remember the name), he somehow bent it and told his people that this Man was indeed the “Son of God”, that he was sent from heaven to redeem man. Then the people had faith. Can you imagine what would happen if the king announced otherwise? There would chaos, unrest, I don’t know what more.

My point is this…. I think we need this “FAITH”. We need something to hold on to when things get shaky. We need a lifeline during the times we are at great heights. We need this “GOD” (existent or not) with such great power to turn things around. We need to know that a “PRAYER” can make us sane enough and help us make it through a rough day. We need a “HEAVEN” that will be our final destination after our life in this world.

So what if there is indeed NO God, would you feel any better?

Thanks LJ. I think I will hunt down that book.

You sound like you are not sure if God has been existing at all:p If God has that great power to turn things around, how come the muslims in Indonesia and elsewhere around the world are killing Christians and the infidels in the name of God? How come much of Africa and the Philippines are very poor? Where is your God’s great power? The Pope has been praying for peace but instead of peace, we got war and terrorism again in the name of God? So! Is God doing more harm than good?

gabby

11-12-2005, 12:46 AM

…You read the book “Da Vinci Code” very mind-stirring diba po?..reading that book somehow test your faith… surprisingly hindi ito na ban ng vatican …the truth,fiction hmmm
…read the "fact " also litol johnny…all description ,artwork,architectur e,documents,and secret rituals in this novel are accurate… :slight_smile:
…On a personal note , evidence for “GOD” is everywhere, from the air we breathe,the sun that shines,to the earth we walk on…it is totally up to you to see what you see in regards to God and how he is making an impact …but remember he is everywhere … so keep the faith:)

So is war, murders,AIDS,CANCER, SARS and AVIAN FLU. Where is your God if he is everywhere?:slight_smile: The family and love ones of the victims of war and deseases are crying for mercy and relief for their pains but their God has betrayed them. He failed them. So is it good to have faith in God? Is it for the better or worse?:slight_smile:

gabby

11-12-2005, 12:56 AM

Gabby

Is the concept of God positively harmful?

No. God is the creator of all. He is called our Father. Human creation fell to the death of sin because of disobedience. He gave everything to human, even the “freedom.” God must have been forsaken us totally and let us dwell with the power of satan … the fallen angel who took pride with himself to sit on the throne of the Creator.
But God created human so special, He created us with his own image, and He gave us the His spirit. But that spirit was been dead because of sin. So here he send his only Son “Christ” to be the perfect lamb. Because He loves us so much. (I will cut it here because it will going to be so long)
Imagine a Father who send His only begotten Son just to be a ransom for disobidient human beings?
The history of the world is so long enough. To summarize. Let’s find a shortcut on a father-children relationship. DISCIPLINE. When a child ask for something, they were so eager to receive it. But the father don’t always give it right away or even deny it. Because the father knows what will be the result if he give the children what they want. Sometimes it is alright to give the children what they want, but they needed to learn lessons first. And there were also hard headed children. They do not listen, they do not follow, they keep doing what is not supposed to be, and there the father give warnings, teachings, alternative punishments and disciplinary acts. But usually, the children can’t understand those. Not until the time of maturity came. And like us, looking back when we were child, we understand why our parents did those things to us. And we understand. And we see our faults. We also see our parents’ mistakes, and learn from it. But God is perfect. We might not understand things right now. But as we continue to trust and obey He will let us know it and be blessed with wisdom of righteousness.

God is our Father. He is Holy. He is perfect. He will not want harm for us. And He is faithful and giving and flourish those who trust and obey in Him … through Christ Jesus.

Hi Adechan!! I love you my dear.:slight_smile: I have been waiting for you. You know? Alam ko ito yung pinaka-paborito mong topic. I just know you have earned the right to talk about God.

So we are in the image and likeness of God. Was Hitler the image of God? Hitler was a devout Catholic. He murdered the Jews because the Jews killed Jesus Christ.

Have you seen the faces of people with full blown AIDS? Are those faces the image of God? Is Cory Aquino or PGMA or Jaime Sin is the image of God?

gabby

11-12-2005, 01:04 AM

not everdearest gabby,

yup, dahil naniniwala ako na lahat ng bagay sa mundo ay may dahilan at ang Diyos lang ang nakakaalam nun…

bayaan mo…kokonsulta ako sa kasamahan ko, kasi lahat ng mga bagay o katanungan ay may mababasa sa Bible at hindi dapat maging basehan ang kahit na anong libro lamang.

saka hindi lang naman Pilipinas ang dapat gawin example, marami pang ibang bansa ang higit na naghihirap compare sa Pilipinas.

@seanty
yung isang kasama namin na nagpunta dito member sya ng ADD, every week napunta sya sa Tokyo kasi naka-hook up daw ang mga member na andito sa Japan sa Online Program ng ADD sa ch 37. ican ask him the details and contact person kung kailangan mo.

Don’t people have the right to know what the purpose is? If God loves us,why deny us that information so we can do something to ease our pain? Is your God a saddistic God?

gabby

11-12-2005, 01:08 AM

are you asking us or just yourself?

Both! I asked myself and I ask you because I want to know. Do you think people is right by believing God? Do you think the belief has positively harmed us?

goldhorse

11-12-2005, 01:20 AM

To cut the long story short, the concept of God can cause, in fact as history tells us, it has caused harm, but that is not to say that God has caused these things. It is man himself who causes the harm. Being imperfect as we are, we can twist any otherwise good concept, which is not limited to God, and turn it into a justification for causing harm to others. Communism for example, in theory is a utopian concept. But left in the hands of human beings, it simply won’t work here on earth. There is no absolute solution to anything, in my thinking. I will not reject my belief in God just because some people have used His name to harm other people. I will continue to beleive in Him as long as I am convinced that after comparing the pros and cons, there is more good that can come from believing than in disbelieving in Him. We sometimes tend to focus on the bad things, but I believe that more good has come from believing in a higher being. I can only shiver at the thought if the whole of mankind did not believe that he is not accountable to a higher being than himself. If you think the wars men have fought in the name of God (although most of the times misguided) were terrible, just imagine what kind of world we’ll live in if nobody believed in a God.

One last thought. We sometimes talk of God as if He/She were a servant Djin. Grant this, grant that. If I am not mistaken, we should be serving God, not the other way around. Maybe instead of asking how many prayers of ours were heard, we should instead ask ourselves, how many wishes of God have we granted? But then I may be wrong.

gabby

11-12-2005, 01:33 AM

In my opinion its not about the concept of God or beleiving in Him that makes good or bad. The problem is us, to whether we not only know Him, but if ever He even acknowledges us to be one of what He had made and if we are one with Him.

I see most of our TF members here are knowlegable people and informed. And others way too much informed and too much TV/movie also.:smiley: joke lang po.

Knowing somebody, understanding what is true or not deals more to a relationship. God is real as the air we breath, the light and warm of the sun each day, the changing of the season and the passing of time. God is real as the life you bear and not like the concept of matrix movie we saw.

I know most of us are wondering about life, its future and the suffering we always endure, God is niether the problem nor the one to blame.

Sabi nga ni Inang at payo nuong maliliit pa kami,“buntot mo hatak mo”. Sa ingles daw, what we saw, we reap.

Can I ask you Mr Gabby a question? Are you a communist or has read stuff on its teaching or perhaps had attended leftist workshop during your HS/college time(No offense meant pls,tanong lang po.pis tayo). I respect Marx and his desire to elleviate man from its suffering. I only hope that we shouldnt be reminded again on what has transpired in Russia and its people as the mother of that ideology. In which it also accept and claimed that after so much decade, they had proven that it doesnt work.

Maybe it shall be a consolation to just be reminded about Paschal waiger. I dont have the exact words, but I guess it goes like these. If I believe in God and later found out He doesnt exist, I had live a good life. Thou If I do not believe in Him and later I found that He is real, I …(sorry got lost on that part)

So at any rate,if you think you shall gain,become good,succesful and resolve world problem bringing all in peace(not pieces). I then would agree to disagree.

Huhhh! Just a big question now in my head :confused: . If God is not real and we are not part of His creation, I cannot accept na parang utot lang tayong lumabas.Hard to be just part of random mutation(which is proven not true or realistic),na tyamba lamang at walang direct reason and purpose. Without one original Divine Creator, how can man be brothers,one world family and attain the true peace?

Hello mate! I am a progresive liberalist,nationali st social democrat. Carl Marx didn’t hate God. He just thought that the concept of God is an impediment towards a perfect society at least that is what I have understood about his ideology.

Why? Is there any reason why human beings have lived or created by your God? What is the purpose of man then? If your divine creator ,created us and make us brothers and world family how come Christians in Europe are killing each other? The bloodeist wars in the world came from Europe the guardian of the Christian faith. The holy land is not even peaceful. It has full of hate and bloody.

So? Is the concept of God positively harmful?

gabby

11-12-2005, 02:00 AM

To cut the long story short, the concept of God can cause, in fact as history tells us, it has caused harm, but that is not to say that God has caused these things. It is man himself who causes the harm. Being imperfect as we are, we can twist any otherwise good concept, which is not limited to God, and turn it into a justification for causing harm to others. Communism for example, in theory is a utopian concept. But left in the hands of human beings, it simply won’t work here on earth. There is no absolute solution to anything, in my thinking. I will not reject my belief in God just because some people have used His name to harm other people. I will continue to beleive in Him as long as I am convinced that after comparing the pros and cons, there is more good that can come from believing than in disbelieving in Him. We sometimes tend to focus on the bad things, but I believe that more good has come from believing in a higher being. I can only shiver at the thought if the whole of mankind did not believe that he is not accountable to a higher being than himself. If you think the wars men have fought in the name of God (although most of the times misguided) were terrible, just imagine what kind of world we’ll live in if nobody believed in a God.

One last thought. We sometimes talk of God as if He/She were a servant Djin. Grant this, grant that. If I am not mistaken, we should be serving God, not the other way around. Maybe instead of asking how many prayers of ours were heard, we should instead ask ourselves, how many wishes of God have we granted? But then I may be wrong.

I like you. You made some sense. However, it seems to me that your kind of God is just like those Gods in Greek mythology. Thr Christian God and Muslim are the God of love and mercy. The Christian God, because of his love sent his one and only beloved son to save us. ( To save us from what?) So the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. But the son emphasised that he did not come to be served but TO SERVE. He said further that if one has little faith as little as the mustard seed he can move mountain. And this is where the problem is. One cannot move a mountain even if he has faith as big as a Mango seed. So what happen? Out of disillusion people practice free sex,abortion because women have right and they are, gay right to get married and lastly the demand for governments to acknowledge that THERE IS NO GOD. So the concept of God is positively harmful.

MX3

11-12-2005, 02:38 AM

Which will take back to the question that believing God is doing more harm than good.

I’m sorry, but I cannot understand how you arrived at that conclusion.

In any case, let me ask you this: How can a Being that gives men hope, when everything else seems so hopeless, be considered as harmful?

When men begin to lose hope, that is when they become “positively harmful”.

Raiden

11-12-2005, 06:26 AM

Religion is God.

I still maintain that believing God is more harmful than good.

Religion is not about God. Religion is an institutionalized system that uses the concept of God to impose control.

I have my own perception of God.

Sure, the concept of God can be spun and twisted, but so can the concept of atheism, which could be used to rationalize wickedness.

So, do you believe that people who believe in God are more dangerous than Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and PolPot?

goldhorse

11-12-2005, 08:51 AM

I like you. You made some sense. However, it seems to me that your kind of God is just like those Gods in Greek mythology. Thr Christian God and Muslim are the God of love and mercy. The Christian God, because of his love sent his one and only beloved son to save us. ( To save us from what?) So the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. But the son emphasised that he did not come to be served but TO SERVE.

I do believe in the Christian God.

I think you are referring to the verse:“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many" Let’s see the context in which Jesus spoke those words. Jesus had just told the apostles of his imminent death and resurection. Then John and James asked that Jesus grant them seats at right and left in glory. The other ten now get angry, being beaten to the punch. Politics. Very human. He sees the apostles bickering over each other over who would have the most prominent seat in Heaven. By saying this, Jesus tells the Apostles, and ultimately us, that people in seats of authority should not be self serving. They should not think of the glory and prestige their authority gives them. But does He say that GOD is supposed to be our servant? Definitely not. He says the Son of Man came to serve. Why make this distinction? Is He not the personification of the One God? Why did Jesus have to be born in human flesh? I share the belief that Jesus was born as a man, with the same frailties as man to show us that, in spite of those frailties it is possible to resist temptation, to do good, to serve God’s will. In short, He came to lead by example. And the relevant verse is one of His examples on how man should serve.

Does He say God is man’s servant anywhere in the Gospels? No. In fact He says in Matt. 6:24 “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot SERVE God and mammon”

He said further that if one has little faith as little as the mustard seed he can move mountain. And this is where the problem is. One cannot move a mountain even if he has faith as big as a Mango seed. So what happen? Out of disillusion people practice free sex,abortion because women have right and they are, gay right to get married and lastly the demand for governments to acknowledge that THERE IS NO GOD. So the concept of God is positively harmful.

I cannot say if disillusionment in God causes people to abort or have free sex. It seems to me rather that people do this because they do not have faith in a God. Please do show us how not believing in God will prevent these.

japino77

11-12-2005, 10:09 AM

well said… and you beat him up good:karate: :smiley:

adechan

11-12-2005, 11:57 AM

Hi Adechan!! I love you my dear.:slight_smile: I have been waiting for you. You know? Alam ko ito yung pinaka-paborito mong topic. I just know you have earned the right to talk about God.

Gabby you know, i am so flattered, so happy and so thankful to God, because i saw here that we had come to another level of maturity. Hindi na tayo kailangang magbatuhan nang bato.:smiley: . Thank you for the oppurtunity.

So we are in the image and likeness of God. Was Hitler the image of God? Hitler was a devout Catholic. He murdered the Jews because the Jews killed Jesus Christ.

Yes we are the image of God, but the part of it was been dead because of sin. All of us are supposed to be called Chilren of God and we are, but our enemy the devil is never tiring to destroy us and rob the title from us. All we need is to claim back the title through the name of Christ.

About Hitler and Catholic. I don’t believe anymore in religion. That make us divided. Hitler and being a devout Catholic. It is said on the Bible, You will know the tree by it’s fruit. And bahala na kayo, huwag na nating dagdagan.

Have you seen the faces of people with full blown AIDS? Are those faces the image of God? Is Cory Aquino or PGMA or Jaime Sin is the image of God?

About AIDS:
I didn’t saw yet in person the faces of people with full blown AIDS. But i read and saw many documentaries about it way back before. We should not ask if those faces are the image of God? But how come those things happened?
If you will try to dig the stories behind AIDS, you will end up to the country Africa. And why those famines and this deadly uncurable disease hit africa so bad, probably you will hate America so much. Again, this is not God who let them happen, but it is the sinful ways and thinking of man that cause all these things to happen and spread all over the world. And we should not ask God … why? But we should vow down to God, asking to HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US!

About Cory Aquino or PGMA or Jaime Sin?
In which tree they came from?

I also was once inside the city office, been into politicians group, was been used, and they said they are training us for future leaders? Politics is not mine. I don’t have enough talent for leadership. At hindi ko kayang sikmurain ang klase nang pulitika na nakita ko. Politics for me is a cancer. Sinumang madikit dito, mahahawaan. Kaya nanghihinayang ako sa ibang religious leader na nakihalo sa politics, nakaka bless pa naman po talaga ang kanilang mga teachings, but still praying that they will overcome these stages of their battle.

Faithful warriors of God must overcome until the end.

adechan

11-12-2005, 12:28 PM

Religion is not about God. Religion is an institutionalized system that uses the concept of God to impose control.

I have my own perception of God.

Sure, the concept of God can be spun and twisted, but so can the concept of atheism, which could be used to rationalize wickedness.

So, do you believe that people who believe in God are more dangerous than Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and PolPot?

Hi there Raiden

just a thought you might be interested in what i posted on my site about Religion

just click ANG SIMULAIN NANG RELIHIYON (http://www.geocities.com/adelina_jp/angsimulain.html)

han

11-12-2005, 01:13 PM

How do you know that God chooses one to reveal himself. Have you been chosen by God? Do you have an intimate understanding or knowledge about him? If you do then maybe you can try to answer my question that the concept of God is positively harmful. I want to know.

I might try to read the book when I get the chance thanks.

i think we have a resident Screwtape here! tnx for this thread, and credit goes to gabby.

Let me jusk ask you, how do u know that there is wind? do u believe that it exists? have you seen it yourself?

on being children of God, i am glad to hear that many of our TF friends here are well aware of what being a child of God means. so far, walang nagmamalinis o nagmamagaling. sino ba ang nangangailangan ng tagapagligtas, e di yung mga makasalanan (tulad ko).

actually, i am gettin gconfused on your hypothesis/question. do you mean to say that: the concept of God is positively harmful = causes all the wars, famine, disease, disaster, selfish politicians, and everything you have in mind.

i believe He has control on everything, even wars and disasters, and even the falling of every autumn leaf. Hitler didnt do anything new to the Jews. For generations, they had been massacred, thrown out of their land, enslaved, whatever unimaginable things had actually happened to them, and to think, they are the apple of God’s eyes. He made a commitment with their race. But God is God, He wont be the omnipotent God if we can know everyhting in His mind. But like most religions we know now, our brother Jews have ritualized God. We cannot buy God simply by doing all what the rule says, or by doing good deeds, if our hearts not right before Him: repentant, humble, and in need of Him.

well, maybe your question is right. the concept of God is positively harmfu. because of all the wrong concepts. :>

hey! maybe i can send you my book. pm me your address. we love this book very much, but we will be glad to give it to you. also, just like to let you know that i used to take offense when people question God (nothing personal, it just hurt me), but just like screwtape, if not for some mind like yours, i wont be on guard of my faith and heart. even the most religious and spiritual people have tendency to ritualize and trivialize God, that’s why everyday should be a day of repentance and a chance to ask for forgiveness. tnx gabby.

gabby

11-12-2005, 07:08 PM

I’m sorry, but I cannot understand how you arrived at that conclusion.

In any case, let me ask you this: How can a Being that gives men hope, when everything else seems so hopeless, be considered as harmful?

When men begin to lose hope, that is when they become “positively harmful”.

First off. Why do you believe in God? What do you hope for in believing in God?

What is that hope that your BEING has been givin to men? What is so hopeless? When does the world runs out of hope? And what do we hope anyway?

The Apostles preached that by believing in God people can see the glory of God. Or in some instances they said that by having faith in God we can hope that we will be saved. Or by believing in God we can hope to have an eternal life.

Up until now we have not seen a glorious God. No one has been saved from dying. And least of all, no one has an eternal life much less an eternal salvation. So what is that hope that your God has promised you?

When a Father give a promise to his child, the child hope that the promise will be done and he gets happy. And when the Father fail to do his promise the child’s heart and faith in his Father will be violently broken and the child will grow up a rebellious child. That is one of the harms spawned by faith or belief.

gabby

11-12-2005, 07:22 PM

Religion is not about God. Religion is an institutionalized system that uses the concept of God to impose control.

I have my own perception of God.

Sure, the concept of God can be spun and twisted, but so can the concept of atheism, which could be used to rationalize wickedness.

So, do you believe that people who believe in God are more dangerous than Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and PolPot?

I don’t believe in anything.

But you are right. Yes. The believers are extremely danhgerous. Bin La Din is a great believer in God. Hitler was a devout Catholic. Read about the history of Papacy and you will know the evils of Men who inhereted the throne of Paul and Peter. Imilda Marcos and Ferdie are devout catholic. Cory Aquino is a devout Catholic. But she seems to enjoy killing or murdering Farmers. First at Mendiola and just recently at Hacienda Luisita. Do you know David Kurish of the Wacco Massacre in Texas? What about that Cult who gassed the Tokyo subways? They are believers in God!

gabby

11-12-2005, 07:46 PM

I do believe in the Christian God.

I think you are referring to the verse:“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many" Let’s see the context in which Jesus spoke those words. Jesus had just told the apostles of his imminent death and resurection. Then John and James asked that Jesus grant them seats at right and left in glory. The other ten now get angry, being beaten to the punch. Politics. Very human. He sees the apostles bickering over each other over who would have the most prominent seat in Heaven. By saying this, Jesus tells the Apostles, and ultimately us, that people in seats of authority should not be self serving. They should not think of the glory and prestige their authority gives them. But does He say that GOD is supposed to be our servant? Definitely not. He says the Son of Man came to serve. Why make this distinction? Is He not the personification of the One God? Why did Jesus have to be born in human flesh? I share the belief that Jesus was born as a man, with the same frailties as man to show us that, in spite of those frailties it is possible to resist temptation, to do good, to serve God’s will. In short, He came to lead by example. And the relevant verse is one of His examples on how man should serve.

Does He say God is man’s servant anywhere in the Gospels? No. In fact He says in Matt. 6:24 “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot SERVE God and mammon”

I cannot say if disillusionment in God causes people to abort or have free sex. It seems to me rather that people do this because they do not have faith in a God. Please do show us how not believing in God will prevent these.

No! The topic is about the harm that faith in God have caused.

God doesn’t want to be served but to serve. His only want is for his creation to be loyal to him. One ievidence is when Jesus said ask anything in my name and my father in heaven will give it to you. Another one is seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. I don’t remember that the new testament mentioned about God wanting us to serve him.

gabby

11-12-2005, 08:02 PM

i think we have a resident Screwtape here! tnx for this thread, and credit goes to gabby.

Let me jusk ask you, how do u know that there is wind? do u believe that it exists? have you seen it yourself?

on being children of God, i am glad to hear that many of our TF friends here are well aware of what being a child of God means. so far, walang nagmamalinis o nagmamagaling. sino ba ang nangangailangan ng tagapagligtas, e di yung mga makasalanan (tulad ko).

actually, i am gettin gconfused on your hypothesis/question. do you mean to say that: the concept of God is positively harmful = causes all the wars, famine, disease, disaster, selfish politicians, and everything you have in mind.

i believe He has control on everything, even wars and disasters, and even the falling of every autumn leaf. Hitler didnt do anything new to the Jews. For generations, they had been massacred, thrown out of their land, enslaved, whatever unimaginable things had actually happened to them, and to think, they are the apple of God’s eyes. He made a commitment with their race. But God is God, He wont be the omnipotent God if we can know everyhting in His mind. But like most religions we know now, our brother Jews have ritualized God. We cannot buy God simply by doing all what the rule says, or by doing good deeds, if our hearts not right before Him: repentant, humble, and in need of Him.

well, maybe your question is right. the concept of God is positively harmfu. because of all the wrong concepts. :>

hey! maybe i can send you my book. pm me your address. we love this book very much, but we will be glad to give it to you. also, just like to let you know that i used to take offense when people question God (nothing personal, it just hurt me), but just like screwtape, if not for some mind like yours, i wont be on guard of my faith and heart. even the most religious and spiritual people have tendency to ritualize and trivialize God, that’s why everyday should be a day of repentance and a chance to ask for forgiveness. tnx gabby.

The wind has head and face. Just recently it devastated New Orleans and Mixico. And yes it is alive and anything that has life exist.

How do you know you are the children of God? The question is very simple. The idea of God is positively harmful.

Yeah! He has control on anything except wars and terrorisms carried out by his believers. The Jews were persecuted before by the Pagans. Not by Christians.

Why should men be in need of God? Technologies are creation of men not by God. Human progress is credited to men’s hard labour but not of God. The Rice terraces and the Great wall of China built by men but not by God. So why should we need him?

Ask forgiveness to whom and for what?

han

11-12-2005, 08:26 PM

how come you can believe the impacts of wind/hurricane but you cant believe on the love of God. that’s interesting.

but just the same, the question you posted is for you. we have all said our position, so it is up to you to answer that. and none really of us can make you want to understand, and no other person really can make another person believe on something, especially on matters of faith.

God uses people, events and even the religious institutions that we have come to criticize, but the truth is only God thru the power of the Holy Spirit does that. keep searching and asking question. it’s positively not harmful. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

adechan

11-12-2005, 09:53 PM

on being children of God, i am glad to hear that many of our TF friends here are well aware of what being a child of God means. so far, walang nagmamalinis o nagmamagaling. sino ba ang nangangailangan ng tagapagligtas, e di yung mga makasalanan (tulad ko).

i am glad too, to see many people around here in TF who are faithful and trying to follow and believe God for whatever consequences we experience

and i believe and praying that more will come to realization and come more closer to God, to know more what is it behind the word faith, truth, hope and who is really God in their life.

Amidst all the depression, calamities, famines, trials, temptations, etc., there is an unexplanable peace inside those who trust God, and that peace keeps them believing to the promised hope of everlasting life. Because that touch of the Holy Spirit is really true and alive, and cannot be denied by those who experience the wonderful touch of it.

a part of a song that i really like “great awakening”
on it’s chorus is says like this
there’s gonna be a great awakening
there’s gonna be a great revival in our land
there’s gonna be a great awakening
AND EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON JESUS
THEY WILL BE SAVE.

fisher

11-12-2005, 10:42 PM

Im a roman catholic and i believe and have faith in God. but I think Gabby has a point. what if theres really none? did you people already saw God? isa pang question is, is there really a heaven and hell? paka-isipin nyo… im sorry but what if He’s just an imaginary thing that some people invented?:frowning: sa question ni Gabby, i think it depends on how much or what kind of faith a person is to say if the concept of God is good or harmful.

again, i belive and have faith in God…:slight_smile:
To see is to believe.This is what you wanted to point out jappino77.Well, I think I can explain something to you. Do you believe that you have a soul?Have you seen it? The thing that I want to tell you is this; If you saw your girlfriend dating another man other than you di ba masasaktan ang damdamin mo? 'di ka makatulog,masakit ang loob,nagseselos at iba pa.Bakit ka nasasaktan? Eh hindi ka naman sinasaktan personally ( I mean halimbawa: sinampal ).Ang sakit na nararamdaman mo ay higit pa sa sakit ng sugat.Diyan ko masasabi sa iyo na nasasaktan ang iyong kaluluwa na tinatawag nating damdamin.Hindi natin nakikita iyan.At iyan din ang magdurusa sa init ng impiyerno na hindi rin natin nakikita.
We should not expect everything good from God.May mga trials din siyang ibinibigay sa atin to test us kung hanggang saan ang tibay ng pagtitiwala natin sa kanya.Iyang mga wars na iyan eh under na sa freewill natin iyan.May masama at mabubuti sa atin.It is where those bad goes to hell and the good ones sa heaven.
Gabby, good thread ito ah.Nadale mo pare:thumb:

betong

11-12-2005, 11:36 PM

Gabby, I have read this thread and have been trying to fight the urge to post my thoughts on this. But the mind is willing and so are my fingers…
I just don’t understand the point of your question. Are you questioning the faith of other people and trying to convince them that what they believe in is harmful because as you say the concept of God is harmful. This line of thinking is in itself not too bad as a lot of people may agree with you. I respect the fact that you think this way. I, myself, am a believer in God though I do not follow any religion or see myself as part of it, though I grew up a Roman Catholic and most of my family are devout Christians. Their faith has helped them out in so many difficult situations and, I believe, help them in their everyday lives.
I do not believe that the concept of God is harmful. It is what people are willing to do in the name of God or religion or beliefs that is harmful. I believe in democracy and liberty and one’s liberty ends where another person’s liberty starts. If we all start to force unto one another our beliefs and thus infringe upon their freedom, that’s how religious wars start, because people believe that they know more or are right or are in the right religion or belief compared to the other. (Some religious wars are waged in the name of religion or God while the real reason is power and money, I should add.)
I believe that you are trying to convince people that you are in the right and they are in the wrong. This is just plain inflammatory. This is the same thinking that goes on in the mind of the suicide bomber as he blows up a crowd, the man who blows up an abortion clinic, the KKK klansman burning up blacks in the southern states or the frustrated man who goes in into his office and kills everybody.
So, this is what I think. The concept if God is not harmful. Belief in something driven to extremes is dangerous.
So, just sit back, relax, respect people for what they believe in. You are entitled to your opinions and so are other people. So, why don’t you just relax, think about Jenkins and how exciting it was to meet him or or other heads of states you’ve met in your pizzeria. Stop preaching.
Cheers.

Stacie Fil

11-13-2005, 02:35 AM

Hello mate!Hello too! I am a progresive liberalist,nationali st social democrat. OKCarl Marx didn’t hate God.I know that too. He just thought that the concept of God is an impediment towards a perfect society at least that is what I have understood about his ideology.

Why? Is there any reason why human beings have lived or created by your God?YES very much! Since you mentioned the word create,anybody who made something planned or not.The reason he move towards that direction deliberately or not,always intails a purpose directly or indirectly to the result, either positive or negative it may become.(Not to mention asking our Tatay and Nanay, they have more to say).

What is the purpose of man then? For “Love” to exist in a different level,whether humans knew it or not.Whether they lived by that code or not.But primarily that I supposed, it is the task, intended.To respond to Him in Love. How do I know? Don’t ask me, your the smart guy around here who knows all the answer. Right mate?

If your divine creator ,created us and make us brothers and world family how come Christians in Europe are killing each other?Why not?Thats their decision.Its what they like.Who are we to judge others?You may ask them directly what is the problem if you really want to know.:open_mouth: Or perhaps they just dont understand or knew yet in their hearts that they are brothers.Hence they could succumb to do such things.Sa bahay nga lang eh, kung mag away ang magka kapatid. But it doesnt means na walang magulang na nag create sa mga anak. Or God to be the source of all the trouble. Sabi nga sa iyo eh… buntot mo, hatak mo. Dali mo namang makalimot.:frowning:

The bloodeist wars in the world came from Europe the guardian of the Christian faith.Are you sure that Europe is the real guardian of Christian faith,or your just guessing…making it up? How did you know? Just asking,nothing much.

The holy land is not even peaceful. It has full of hate and bloody.Of course,don’t you remember history.God Himself even ask the Esraelites to swipe out all of thier enemy right? Sure thats a big trouble and hate.You knew that. I know from you answers that you know the Bible more that most of us . Haven’t you ask God whats His reason for that?Or He didn’t answer you? My… Adechan and the rest seems more luckier to get an answer than you.Sayang! But dont loose hope mate,keep it up.They say answer are sometimes given later.Be patient.

So? Is the concept of God positively harmful?He,he,he,got to hand it to you man,you really are something you know…:wink: You can simply make some twist and turn and good stir even in your questions.I’d say, you’ll come out to be a good lawyer if you try. I guess?

.Nice thread,makes your mind think and explore. Keep it rolling

Flippy Aze

11-13-2005, 12:19 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

gabby, I hope you don’t mind my asking, but, to what congregation do you belong?
I can’t blame you if you asked such question because I, myself, had queried that for quite a long time and I believe it has something to do with your religion( others may call it that way).
If, until now, you haven’t realized the existence of GOD, (which, I think, is evident on the way you constructed your question, “concept of God???”, as if , to you, it’s just a superficial and an arbitrary thing), then, I suggest, that you maximize your WILLPOWER to search for the truth, i.e, if your religion does not and could not convince you at all about the Goodness of GOD, why not try other congregations, I assure you, one of these days, you’ll find the answers to your question. Just keep searchin’ brother…He will lead your way!

MX3

11-13-2005, 04:18 PM

Gabby, I have read this thread and have been trying to fight the urge to post my thoughts on this. But the mind is willing and so are my fingers…
I just don’t understand the point of your question. Are you questioning the faith of other people and trying to convince them that what they believe in is harmful because as you say the concept of God is harmful. This line of thinking is in itself not too bad as a lot of people may agree with you. I respect the fact that you think this way. I, myself, am a believer in God though I do not follow any religion or see myself as part of it, though I grew up a Roman Catholic and most of my family are devout Christians. Their faith has helped them out in so many difficult situations and, I believe, help them in their everyday lives.
I do not believe that the concept of God is harmful. It is what people are willing to do in the name of God or religion or beliefs that is harmful. I believe in democracy and liberty and one’s liberty ends where another person’s liberty starts. If we all start to force unto one another our beliefs and thus infringe upon their freedom, that’s how religious wars start, because people believe that they know more or are right or are in the right religion or belief compared to the other. (Some religious wars are waged in the name of religion or God while the real reason is power and money, I should add.)
I believe that you are trying to convince people that you are in the right and they are in the wrong. This is just plain inflammatory. This is the same thinking that goes on in the mind of the suicide bomber as he blows up a crowd, the man who blows up an abortion clinic, the KKK klansman burning up blacks in the southern states or the frustrated man who goes in into his office and kills everybody.
So, this is what I think. The concept if God is not harmful. Belief in something driven to extremes is dangerous.
So, just sit back, relax, respect people for what they believe in. You are entitled to your opinions and so are other people. So, why don’t you just relax, think about Jenkins and how exciting it was to meet him or or other heads of states you’ve met in your pizzeria. Stop preaching.
Cheers.

Very Nice! Cheers Betong!

Raiden

11-13-2005, 09:01 PM

Hi there Raiden

just a thought you might be interested in what i posted on my site about Religion

just click ANG SIMULAIN NANG RELIHIYON (http://www.geocities.com/adelina_jp/angsimulain.html)

Nice site Adechan.

I’m not really a big fan of Religion, but thanks for sharing the information on your website. :slight_smile:

Raiden

11-13-2005, 09:50 PM

I don’t believe in anything.

But you are right. Yes. The believers are extremely danhgerous. Bin La Din is a great believer in God. Hitler was a devout Catholic. Read about the history of Papacy and you will know the evils of Men who inhereted the throne of Paul and Peter. Imilda Marcos and Ferdie are devout catholic. Cory Aquino is a devout Catholic. But she seems to enjoy killing or murdering Farmers. First at Mendiola and just recently at Hacienda Luisita. Do you know David Kurish of the Wacco Massacre in Texas? What about that Cult who gassed the Tokyo subways? They are believers in God!

David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, Asahara Shoko of the Aum Shinrikyo, Osama Bin Laden of Al Qaeda, they are prominent religious figures who have taken their religion to the point of extremism. As for Hitler he was more of an insane, but charismatic and jingoistic leader, than a religious figure.

Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot were murderous and oppressive tyrants who were atheists.

Religion, Ideology, anything that is taken to the point of extremism is dangerous and harmful.

I am a tenacious supporter of the separation of church and state, but as much as I am critical of religion, I’m also for freedom of religion as long as it does not infringe on other people’s rights.

Whether you believe in God or not, as long as you don’t shove your beliefs or lack thereof down my throat, and you are a decent person, then we would get along just fine.

gabby

11-14-2005, 12:58 AM

Gabby, I have read this thread and have been trying to fight the urge to post my thoughts on this. But the mind is willing and so are my fingers…
I just don’t understand the point of your question. Are you questioning the faith of other people and trying to convince them that what they believe in is harmful because as you say the concept of God is harmful. This line of thinking is in itself not too bad as a lot of people may agree with you. I respect the fact that you think this way. I, myself, am a believer in God though I do not follow any religion or see myself as part of it, though I grew up a Roman Catholic and most of my family are devout Christians. Their faith has helped them out in so many difficult situations and, I believe, help them in their everyday lives.
I do not believe that the concept of God is harmful. It is what people are willing to do in the name of God or religion or beliefs that is harmful. I believe in democracy and liberty and one’s liberty ends where another person’s liberty starts. If we all start to force unto one another our beliefs and thus infringe upon their freedom, that’s how religious wars start, because people believe that they know more or are right or are in the right religion or belief compared to the other. (Some religious wars are waged in the name of religion or God while the real reason is power and money, I should add.)
I believe that you are trying to convince people that you are in the right and they are in the wrong. This is just plain inflammatory. This is the same thinking that goes on in the mind of the suicide bomber as he blows up a crowd, the man who blows up an abortion clinic, the KKK klansman burning up blacks in the southern states or the frustrated man who goes in into his office and kills everybody.
So, this is what I think. The concept if God is not harmful. Belief in something driven to extremes is dangerous.
So, just sit back, relax, respect people for what they believe in. You are entitled to your opinions and so are other people. So, why don’t you just relax, think about Jenkins and how exciting it was to meet him or or other heads of states you’ve met in your pizzeria. Stop preaching.
Cheers.

Thanks Betong. It is not my business to screen other people’s thought. Nothing could have been further from my thoughts. I was just asking if people think that the concept of God is harmful.

So you agree, though not necessarily believe that the concept of God is harmful, be it extreme or whatever because faith is faith. It is faith that inspires people to act out what they believe. For example Bin Laden is inspired by God, as he said, to punish the infidels through the act of terrorism. Now the question is, is his faith in God harmless? Has it done good to civilisation? I don’t question and I don’t care if yours and your family’s faith have bailed you out of hardships. You see! You angled your response to your personal experience. Forgetting to see further than the end of your nose. My question is about what is happening around us. The religious wars in Northern Ireland,(Catholic vs. Protestant? India,(Hindi vs.Muslims)Israel(Je ws) vs. Palestine(Muslims) and recently the murders or religious attacks against Christians in Iraq and Indonesia. Now is that what you said that you don’t believe that the concept of God is not harmful. Aren 't you going to stop and think for a moment about the faith in God?

It is only in your imagination that I am preaching. What is there to preach when you people know more about whatever it is you believe. Yes Betong I really had a blast thinking about popular personalities I met in the course of my job. I am very proud of it.

leikavie05

11-14-2005, 10:36 AM

leikavie05, off topic lang, meron na bang gawain dito ang dating daan?

Seanty, Hello po, meron na po d2 sa japan coordinating center ng "Ang Dating Daan."at kung gusto mo pong makadalo sa mga gatherings po upang makapakinig ng mga katwiran ng Dios punta lng po kayo, lahat po ay Welcome! at ito po ang daan sa lahat ng mga katanungan sa pana2mpalataya na ang sasagot ay ang Biblia

Seanty , email lng po kayo d2 maranatha616@docomo. ne.jp or call 09025430682 for more info po para doon sa lugar na puwede nyo pong puntahan .

At sa lahat po ng Tf members visit this website www.angdatingdaan.or g (http://www.angdatingdaan.or g) or www.angdatingdaan.tv (http://www.angdatingdaan.tv ) na ang Biblia po ang sasagot sa lahat ng problema nyo po sa panampalataya! THANK’S po…

leikavie05

11-14-2005, 11:14 AM

Gabby, walang katotohanan yang nabasa mo sa Da vinci code ,wag kang nagpapaniwala dyan dhil hindi yan kasang ayon sa Biblia…na sinsabi dyan sa da vinci code na God is everywhere mali po yan! according to

proverbs 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place,beholding the evil and the good.

Kawikaan 15:3 Ang mga mata ng Panginoon ay nasa bawat dako,na nagbabantay sa masama at mabuti .

ang mata po ng panginoon ang nasa bawat dako hindi po God is everywhere … share ko lng sa inyo visit this website http://www.angdatingdaan.or g or www.angdatingdaan.tv (http://www.angdatingdaan.tv ) para po hindi kayo maligaw ng mga nababasa nyo po na walng basehan tulad po nyang da vinci code gawagawa lng po yan ng walng malay sa Biblia …meron po dyan segment sa website “Itanong mo kay Soriano ! Biblia ang Sasagot!” , Bible Exposition ! at marami ka pong mauunawaan na totoong salita ng Dios…at sasagot sa lahat ng katanungan…at puwede po kayong makapagtanong ng Live!pag may mga live webcast po…at maririnig ng buong mundo…kung anoman po ang inyong katanungan coz,pag live live po talaga…thank’s po…

gabby

11-14-2005, 12:31 PM

David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, Asahara Shoko of the Aum Shinrikyo, Osama Bin Laden of Al Qaeda, they are prominent religious figures who have taken their religion to the point of extremism. As for Hitler he was more of an insane, but charismatic and jingoistic leader, than a religious figure.

Religion, Ideology, anything that is taken to the point of extremism is dangerous and harmful.

I am a tenacious supporter of the separation of church and state, but as much as I am critical of religion, I’m also for freedom of religion as long as it does not infringe on other people’s rights.

Whether you believe in God or not, as long as you don’t shove your beliefs or lack thereof down my throat, and you are a decent person, then we would get along just fine.

Brilliant! I like that.

gabby

11-14-2005, 12:37 PM

how come you can believe the impacts of wind/hurricane but you cant believe on the love of God. that’s interesting.

:slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Let us just say Wind is Wind. It isn’t God or has something to do with human being’s belief in God. The wind has been fully and satisfatorily explain through scietific means. So we have to role out the wind as God.

gabby

11-14-2005, 12:53 PM

What is the purpose of man then? For “Love” to exist in a different level,whether humans knew it or not.Whether they lived by that code or not.But primarily that I supposed, it is the task, intended.To respond to Him in Love. How do I know? Don’t ask me, your the smart guy around here who knows all the answer. Right mate?

== LOL:D I love you mate.

If your divine creator ,created us and make us brothers and world family how come Christians in Europe are killing each other?Why not?Thats their decision.Its what they like.Who are we to judge others?You may ask them directly what is the problem if you really want to know.:open_mouth: Or perhaps they just dont understand or knew yet in their hearts that they are brothers.Hence they could succumb to do such things.Sa bahay nga lang eh, kung mag away ang magka kapatid. But it doesnt means na walang magulang na nag create sa mga anak. Or God to be the source of all the trouble. Sabi nga sa iyo eh… buntot mo, hatak mo. Dali mo namang makalimot.:frowning:

== Actually quite a number of them don’t believe anything anymore. I think they don’t like to talk about God anymore, because probably the concept of God will just get them in trouble.

The bloodeist wars in the world came from Europe the guardian of the Christian faith.Are you sure that Europe is the real guardian of Christian faith,or your just guessing…making it up? How did you know? Just asking,nothing much.

== I know because they spread it all over the world. Remember the Spaniards converted us to Christianity ain’t they? When Islam crept into Europe in the Mediaval age, France,Italy,Germany ,Greece and others have joined forces to save Europe from becoming Muslims and set out to liberate the HOLY LAND as well. Christian Crusaders are probably the most atrocious soldiers and the most bloody religious war in history.

So? Is the concept of God positively harmful?He,he,he,got to hand it to you man,you really are something you know…:wink: You can simply make some twist and turn and good stir even in your questions.I’d say, you’ll come out to be a good lawyer if you try. I guess?

.[/quote]Nice thread,makes your mind think and explore. Keep it rolling[/quote]

== Glad you like it. You might want to share for more I enjoy engaging with you. You are funny.

gabby

11-14-2005, 12:56 PM

i am glad too, to see many people around here in TF who are faithful and trying to follow and believe God for whatever consequences we experience

and i believe and praying that more will come to realization and come more closer to God, to know more what is it behind the word faith, truth, hope and who is really God in their life.

Amidst all the depression, calamities, famines, trials, temptations, etc., there is an unexplanable peace inside those who trust God, and that peace keeps them believing to the promised hope of everlasting life. Because that touch of the Holy Spirit is really true and alive, and cannot be denied by those who experience the wonderful touch of it.

a part of a song that i really like “great awakening”

on it’s chorus is says like thisthere’s gonna be a great awakening
there’s gonna be a great revival in our land
there’s gonna be a great awakening
AND EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON JESUS
THEY WILL BE SAVE.

Hello Adechan! Happy posting. Hope Docomo will pardon me for using that. Sometimes FAITH betrays man’s very soul.

docomo

11-14-2005, 01:10 PM

It’s funny how this question started …I guess it would be funnier on how this question would end :cool:

gabby

11-14-2005, 01:16 PM

It’s funny how this question started …I guess it would be funnier on how would this question would end :cool:

I think Life is good when Docomo is around and not God!:slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue:

docomo

11-14-2005, 01:25 PM

I think Life is good when Docomo is around and not God!:slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s because you can’t damn resist my charm :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

hunky

11-14-2005, 02:51 PM

maybe the concept of God becomes harmful when we believe in different Gods or interpretations of God’s will, then use this to justify our own selfish agendas to judge and suppress other people. in other words, what is harmful is man’s own wickedness. i have no perfect explanation for disasters or diseases but maybe God created nature with as much free will as mankind. technology is advanced by man and nobody thinks God created technological breakthroughs. however, these advances wouldn’t be a reality without God’s wisdom of creating man with intelligence and providing them with resources.

i just want to add that Hitler maybe baptized as catholic but he wasn’t a devout catholic. he was a lazy, racist, twisted, and scheming individual. he was as jealous of the jews as he was abhorrent of the elders and the disabled.

I believe in God (christian) and i never had any recollection of that leading me to harm’s way. rather it helps me a lot so i should say “the concept of my believing in God” is positively very rewarding. i never blamed God for any misgivings the world has experienced. i blame man for his wickedness.
by the way, how is getting more harm than good positively harmful (@ Mr. Gabby)?:confused: :smiley: i don’t quite get this

gabby

11-14-2005, 02:59 PM

maybe the concept of God becomes harmful when we believe in different Gods or interpretations of God’s will, then use this to justify our own selfish agendas to judge and suppress other people. in other words, what is harmful is man’s own wickedness. i have no perfect explanation for disasters or diseases but maybe God created nature with as much free will as mankind. technology is advanced by man and nobody thinks God created technological breakthroughs. however, these advances wouldn’t be a reality without God’s wisdom of creating man with intelligence and providing them with resources.

i just want to add that Hitler maybe baptized as catholic but he wasn’t a devout catholic. he was a lazy, racist, twisted, and scheming individual. he was as jealous of the jews as he was abhorrent of the elders and the disabled.

I believe in God (christian) and i never had any recollection of that leading me to harm’s way. rather it helps me a lot so i should say “the concept of my believing in God” is positively very rewarding. i never blamed God for any misgivings the world has experienced. i blame man for his wickedness.
by the way, how is getting more harm than good positively harmful (@ Mr. Gabby)?:confused: :smiley: i don’t quite get this

You are doing well Hunky. But you see, my frame of referrence is not people’s personal experiences with their God. I, myself have a personal experience with whatever I believe or had believed. But our collective faith hasn’t added up to what is now happening in the world. That my dear leads to the question that the concept of God is not good or is it?

gabby

11-14-2005, 03:09 PM

Gabby, walang katotohanan yang nabasa mo sa Da vinci code ,wag kang nagpapaniwala dyan dhil hindi yan kasang ayon sa Biblia…na sinsabi dyan sa da vinci code na God is everywhere mali po yan! according to

proverbs 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place,beholding the evil and the good.

Kawikaan 15:3 Ang mga mata ng Panginoon ay nasa bawat dako,na nagbabantay sa masama at mabuti .

ang mata po ng panginoon ang nasa bawat dako hindi po God is everywhere … share ko lng sa inyo visit this website http://www.angdatingdaan.or g or www.angdatingdaan.tv (http://www.angdatingdaan.tv ) para po hindi kayo maligaw ng mga nababasa nyo po na walng basehan tulad po nyang da vinci code gawagawa lng po yan ng walng malay sa Biblia …meron po dyan segment sa website “Itanong mo kay Soriano ! Biblia ang Sasagot!” , Bible Exposition ! at marami ka pong mauunawaan na totoong salita ng Dios…at sasagot sa lahat ng katanungan…at puwede po kayong makapagtanong ng Live!pag may mga live webcast po…at maririnig ng buong mundo…kung anoman po ang inyong katanungan coz,pag live live po talaga…thank’s po…

Hindi ko pa nabasa Liekavie. Hirap naman nang pangalan mo. Pero pag may mag-pahiram nang the code of da vinci. I will be glad.

Gaano ba kalaki ang mata nang God mo kung hindi siya everywhere? Atsaka nakakatakot iyang relihiyon na iyan. Bakit ang dating daan. Gusto ko iyung bago para madaanan ko. Halimbawa nalulunod na ako, paano ko magagamit iyung dating daan eh sarado na iyun di ba? Kaya kailangan ko bagong daan para ma save ko sarili mula sa impyerno. Halibawa sumusigaw ako nang help! Help! tapos i-offer mo dating daan di hindi na puwede iyun di ba?

docomo

11-14-2005, 03:18 PM

@ gabby … pahiramin kita ng “Da Vinci Code” … FYI …fiction po ito:)

optimist

11-14-2005, 03:25 PM

by the way, how is getting more harm than good positively harmful (@ Mr. Gabby)?:confused: :smiley: i don’t quite get this

nalito rin ako sa question after reading the thread. pero anyway i’ts rephrased (underline)below:D

You are doing well Hunky. But you see, my frame of referrence is not people’s personal experiences with their God. I, myself have a personal experience with whatever I believe or had believed. But our collective faith hasn’t added up to what is now happening in the world. That my dear leads to the question that the concept of God is not good or is it?

i think it is also helpful as reference to see it on a personal level in order to see the bigger picture.

gabby

11-14-2005, 03:33 PM

nalito rin ako sa question after reading the thread. pero anyway i’ts rephrased (underline)below:D

i think it is also helpful as reference to see it on a personal level in order to see the bigger picture.

Hello dear how are you? So what is the bigger picture from your stand point? Can you share?

han

11-14-2005, 07:10 PM

Let us just say Wind is Wind. It isn’t God or has something to do with human being’s belief in God. The wind has been fully and satisfatorily explain through scietific means. So we have to role out the wind as God.

linaw ko lang gabs, i didnt say the the wind is God. dont put words into my mouth. that’s one of the false concepts of God.

the creation is not the Creator. we have to be very clear on that. :slight_smile:

gabby

11-14-2005, 07:33 PM

linaw ko lang gabs, i didnt say the the wind is God. dont put words into my mouth. that’s one of the false concepts of God.

the creation is not the Creator. we have to be very clear on that. :slight_smile:

. . . who created the creation?

Samn

11-14-2005, 09:19 PM

Do you,people believe that a concept of God is positively HARMFUL?

’ God is good all the time, all the time God is good’ . This is a favorite line of many believers.There is nothing harmful about God, only those who doesn’t know Him thinks otherwise. Bad things happen as a consequence of our own decisions.

By the way, bakit ganyan ang tanong mo, pls. reply.

Samn

11-14-2005, 09:29 PM

Just like asking “Which comes first the hen or the egg”

gabby

11-14-2005, 09:52 PM

’ God is good all the time, all the time God is good’ . This is a favorite line of many believers.There is nothing harmful about God, only those who doesn’t know Him thinks otherwise. Bad things happen as a consequence of our own decisions.

By the way, bakit ganyan ang tanong mo, pls. reply.

I don’t know! Nothing! Perhaps I am just overwhelmed by all these troubles we have regarding senseless killings caused by people who claimed they are inspired by God.

In the US there is a trend to delete the word God in their schools,currency and the constitution. or does it include the constitution? In France, wearing headscarves are already ban in schools and government buildings.

France,Germany,The Neitherlands and Italy are opposing the entry of Turkey into the European union for no other reason except that Turkey is Muslim.

My reading into all of these is that people are getting apprehensive about the concept of God. They are getting paranoid about religion. And they are not baseless.

The Iraqis are hating each other because one is Sunni Muslim and the other is Shiite Muslim. And they kill just because of that differences.

In the Philippines we are all in danger to get caught of Muslim extremism. If we get caught in the wrong place and in the wrong time, when the muslims attack, we will die for no reason other than the Muslims are doing it in the name of Allah! Just picture 9/11 in New York. So many precious lives have been lost because of the stupid faith of an unknown God. The hindus in India have killed hundreds of Muslims because the Muslims insulted their God.

So how a supposedly God of Love can inspire people to kill? Is the concept of God really for good?

gabby

11-14-2005, 09:56 PM

Just like asking “Which comes first the hen or the egg”

I know what you mean. That is not what I mean. It is the effect of man’s faith in God that cause me to think about the idea of God.

hunky

11-14-2005, 10:25 PM

the concept of God is not harmful. it’s misconception of God that is harmful.

pointblank

11-14-2005, 10:37 PM

Hi Gabby,

After reading all the exchanges on this thread, I must say that I am quite dazed by all the arguments that are literally flying in all directions. I’m actually amazed that the thread has actually stretched this far…

While you have said that you believe that the concept of a God is harmful, I don’t seem to remember (sorry, I read through everything as quickly as possible, so I might have missed it) if you have stated whether or not you believe in God. I think this second question should precede the first question.

It is actually pointless to argue the first question since it is a generalized statement - therefore we can twist it both ways. I agree with you: we cannot deny that the concept of a God can be harmful, as in the many instances you have given. Note that I said “can be”, and not “is” because we cannot also deny that the concept of a God can be beneficial. It really depends on how the concept of God is used by man.

As for the belief in God: if you do, then there really is no need to continue this thread further as it only serves to generate argument for argument’s sake; if you don’t, no one in this forum can convince you if you choose not to believe in God - you can always find a reason to deny God’s existence.

Ultimately, it is a question of faith. Faith is precisely just that: believing in something that you cannot prove to be absolutely true. If you could, then it would be a fact and there would thus be no need for faith. There would then also be no reward (in whatever form, personal or otherwise) for believing - only punishment for stubbornheaded stupidity to refuse admitting a fact such as 1 + 1 = 2.

hunky

11-14-2005, 10:56 PM

Hi Gabby,

After reading all the exchanges on this thread, I must say that I am quite dazed by all the arguments that are literally flying in all directions. I’m actually amazed that the thread has actually stretched this far…

While you have said that you believe that the concept of a God is harmful, I don’t seem to remember (sorry, I read through everything as quickly as possible, so I might have missed it) if you have stated whether or not you believe in God. I think this second question should precede the first question.

It is actually pointless to argue the first question since it is a generalized statement - therefore we can twist it both ways. I agree with you: we cannot deny that the concept of a God can be harmful, as in the many instances you have given. Note that I said “can be”, and not “is” because we cannot also deny that the concept of a God can be beneficial. It really depends on how the concept of God is used by man.

As for the belief in God: if you do, then there really is no need to continue this thread further as it only serves to generate argument for argument’s sake; if you don’t, no one in this forum can convince you if you choose not to believe in God - you can always find a reason to deny God’s existence.

Ultimately, it is a question of faith. Faith is precisely just that: believing in something that you cannot prove to be absolutely true. If you could, then it would be a fact and there would thus be no need for faith. There would then also be no reward (in whatever form, personal or otherwise) for believing - only punishment for stubbornheaded stupidity to refuse admitting a fact such as 1 + 1 = 2.

very well said

betong

11-14-2005, 11:32 PM

Thanks Betong. It is not my business to screen other people’s thought. Nothing could have been further from my thoughts. I was just asking if people think that the concept of God is harmful.

So you agree, though not necessarily believe that the concept of God is harmful, be it extreme or whatever because faith is faith. It is faith that inspires people to act out what they believe. For example Bin Laden is inspired by God, as he said, to punish the infidels through the act of terrorism. Now the question is, is his faith in God harmless? Has it done good to civilisation? I don’t question and I don’t care if yours and your family’s faith have bailed you out of hardships. You see! You angled your response to your personal experience. Forgetting to see further than the end of your nose. My question is about what is happening around us. The religious wars in Northern Ireland,(Catholic vs. Protestant? India,(Hindi vs.Muslims)Israel(Je ws) vs. Palestine(Muslims) and recently the murders or religious attacks against Christians in Iraq and Indonesia. Now is that what you said that you don’t believe that the concept of God is not harmful. Aren 't you going to stop and think for a moment about the faith in God?

It is only in your imagination that I am preaching. What is there to preach when you people know more about whatever it is you believe. Yes Betong I really had a blast thinking about popular personalities I met in the course of my job. I am very proud of it.
No, Gabby I do not at all agree with your line of thought that the concept of God is harmful. I don’t think you actually read what people are writing down. I wrote that belief if driven to extremes can be harmful. So is the case of the examples you have given and keep giving to prove your point. These are people driven by their belief into extremism. Your average God-believing Joe doesn’t go around shooting people in their heads.
Another thing, I have written that my family has faith and this has helped them out in many ways. I have attained what I have now through the sweat of my brow, not kneeling in church, as I have said I believe in God but not any religion. But anyway, what’s the point you don’t seem to care to read carefully what people write. Maybe being a bit more open to what people say and not just twisting their words can help you be a better listener/reader. The way you argue is more akin to people having fights in palenkes or in elementary school.
By the way, maybe you should mind your manners as you seem to have no respect for people and do not seem to know regular civilties. Remember, in case you have to meet some other heads of states, it would help to learn more about the subtleties of human relations.
Take care, relax with the thoughts of Jenkins, Tony and Cherie. And I hope that you may also meet George W as he is scheduled to be in Japan for two days starting tomorrow. Maybe he can drop by for some pizza, chianti, grappa and tiramisu. Then while the time away talking about evil muslims…

MX3

11-15-2005, 12:00 AM

Ahhhh…why even bother.

gabby

11-15-2005, 12:01 AM

Hi Gabby,

After reading all the exchanges on this thread, I must say that I am quite dazed by all the arguments that are literally flying in all directions. I’m actually amazed that the thread has actually stretched this far…

While you have said that you believe that the concept of a God is harmful, I don’t seem to remember (sorry, I read through everything as quickly as possible, so I might have missed it) if you have stated whether or not you believe in God. I think this second question should precede the first question.

It is actually pointless to argue the first question since it is a generalized statement - therefore we can twist it both ways. I agree with you: we cannot deny that the concept of a God can be harmful, as in the many instances you have given. Note that I said “can be”, and not “is” because we cannot also deny that the concept of a God can be beneficial. It really depends on how the concept of God is used by man.

As for the belief in God: if you do, then there really is no need to continue this thread further as it only serves to generate argument for argument’s sake; if you don’t, no one in this forum can convince you if you choose not to believe in God - you can always find a reason to deny God’s existence.

Ultimately, it is a question of faith. Faith is precisely just that: believing in something that you cannot prove to be absolutely true. If you could, then it would be a fact and there would thus be no need for faith. There would then also be no reward (in whatever form, personal or otherwise) for believing - only punishment for stubbornheaded stupidity to refuse admitting a fact such as 1 + 1 = 2.

Oh well! What do you know! A big hello there! Is everything well with you? I wonder why did you bother to drop by and share your BIG thought when you thought that my thread is rubbish?. Faith is precisely not just that. It has gone beyond that. It has been wreaking lives and properties all over the world from the past until now. What your number has got to do with faith. Numbers are absolute faith is not. Happy posting Pointblank.

gabby

11-15-2005, 12:30 AM

No, Gabby I do not at all agree with your line of thought that the concept of God is harmful. I don’t think you actually read what people are writing down. I wrote that belief if driven to extremes can be harmful. So is the case of the examples you have given and keep giving to prove your point. These are people driven by their belief into extremism. Your average God-believing Joe doesn’t go around shooting people in their heads.
Another thing, I have written that my family has faith and this has helped them out in many ways. I have attained what I have now through the sweat of my brow, not kneeling in church, as I have said I believe in God but not any religion. But anyway, what’s the point you don’t seem to care to read carefully what people write. Maybe being a bit more open to what people say and not just twisting their words can help you be a better listener/reader. The way you argue is more akin to people having fights in palenkes or in elementary school.
By the way, maybe you should mind your manners as you seem to have no respect for people and do not seem to know regular civilties. Remember, in case you have to meet some other heads of states, it would help to learn more about the subtleties of human relations.
Take care, relax with the thoughts of Jenkins, Tony and Cherie. And I hope that you may also meet George W as he is scheduled to be in Japan for two days starting tomorrow. Maybe he can drop by for some pizza, chianti, grappa and tiramisu. Then while the time away talking about evil muslims…

Come on Betong don’t be a snob. I got your drift quite well and sorry to tell you it didn’t diminish me a bit. Definitely your imagination ran away with you. I read and understood all your postings and we just haven’t locked up. Not that I didn’t agree with you it just that we got our wires crossed. And don’t be defensive. I didn’t say you were lighting up candles in the church to get through your exams. Relax mate don’t stand on your dignity no one cares. Look who’s preaching now? Talking about manner. Why? Do you want me to address you with an honourific ‘SIR’ Forget it, it is crap.
If you don’t agree with me why are you still here? What are you trying to prove? See what your belief has made you? You have become a snob. I didn’t know PALENGKEROS and PEOPLE IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL are that small people. Remember the saying . . . even stupid people have their own story.

nick

11-15-2005, 01:22 AM

Okay, here is my take on all of this, gabby.

You are trolling. You asked a question inviting other people’s thoughts about their faith. And then you basically just shoot them down and tell them they’re wrong. So the whole point of this thread is not to create an intelligent discussion; you don’t seem particularly interested in what other people has to say. Of course, I may be wrong about this.

What I’m positively sure it that nothing good ever came out of a religious debate. If you’ve read pinaypie’s thread (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=740 ), you probably read what I wrote:

Although pinaypie named this thread “debate”, religious debates are discouraged in Timog Forum. Why? Because religious debates serve no useful purpose (as far as I’m concerned). The best way to reply to this thread is to share your religious experience, why you believe what you believe in. Respect that other people may have different opinions.
I’ve been really tolerant of this thread up to now but I don’t see the point of continuing this any further. To all concerned, write your final thoughts because this thread is going to be closed soon.

depp

11-15-2005, 10:10 AM

tama ka jan ms.pointblank.:slight_smile: well.para sa akin GOD concept is good.yun ang paniniwala ko at yun ang nasa puso ko.yun ang nararamdaman ko sa araw-araw na pakikibaka ko dito sa mundo.i believe in GOD,i love GOD and i have faith in GOD.kahit hnindi ako debotong kristiyano at kahit bihira akong magsimba.at yan ang ituturo at itinuturo ko sa mga anak ko.:slight_smile:

leikavie05

11-15-2005, 12:30 PM

Hindi ko pa nabasa Liekavie. Hirap naman nang pangalan mo. Pero pag may mag-pahiram nang the code of da vinci. I will be glad.

Gaano ba kalaki ang mata nang God mo kung hindi siya everywhere? Atsaka nakakatakot iyang relihiyon na iyan. Bakit ang dating daan. Gusto ko iyung bago para madaanan ko. Halimbawa nalulunod na ako, paano ko magagamit iyung dating daan eh sarado na iyun di ba? Kaya kailangan ko bagong daan para ma save ko sarili mula sa impyerno. Halibawa sumusigaw ako nang help! Help! tapos i-offer mo dating daan di hindi na puwede iyun di ba?

Gabby, nabasa mo namn sa kaw.15:3 Ang mga mata ng Panginoon ay nasa bawa’t dako na nagbabantay ng masama at mabuti.

hindi mismo ang Dios ang nasa bawat dako kundi ang mga mata ng Dios ang nasa bawat dako na nagbabantay ng masama at mabuti , dhil ang Dios ay Banal ,dhil pag sinabi mong God is Everywhere eh di gusto mo palng mangyari ung cnasabi mong dios mo na everywhere pati sa lugar ng lasingan nandoon pala…at hndi mo puwedeng pasubalian ang nkasulat sa Biblia na salita ng Dios …
at ung cnasabi mong naka2takot na relihiyon Ang Dating Daan hindi nman yan relihiyon eh Title yan ng programa sa Television na kung saan doon ay nag pahahayag ng tunay na salita ng Dios ng isang tapat na manga2rall na syang magiging daan para lumiwanag ang madilim na isipan na mula sa pagiging masama tungo sa kabutihan at kabanalan…

kya ikaw gabby magisip kang mabuti sa mga pinagsasabi mo…hindi ka dpaat nanghuhusga dhil wala kng karapatan manghusga… darating din ang panahon ang Dios ang maghuhusga sa lahat kung ano ang ginawa mo sa mundong ito!

betong

11-15-2005, 01:29 PM

Okay, here is my take on all of this, gabby.
You are trolling. You asked a question inviting other people’s thoughts about their faith. And then you basically just shoot them down and tell them they’re wrong. So the whole point of this thread is not to create an intelligent discussion; you don’t seem particularly interested in what other people have to say…
I’ve been really tolerant of this thread up to now but I don’t see the point of continuing this any further. To all concerned, write your final thoughts because this thread is going to be closed soon.
Ah, divine intervention!
Amen to that, Big Mushroom in the TF skies!
Have been wondering where your omnipresent benevolence was.

betong

11-15-2005, 01:41 PM

…don’t be defensive. I didn’t say you were lighting up candles in the church to get through your exams. Relax mate don’t stand on your dignity no one cares. Look who’s preaching now? Talking about manner. Why? Do you want me to address you with an honourific ‘SIR’ Forget it, it is crap.
If you don’t agree with me why are you still here? What are you trying to prove? See what your belief has made you? You have become a snob. I didn’t know PALENGKEROS and PEOPLE IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL are that small people. Remember the saying . . . even stupid people have their own story.
I am no snob kimosabe.
Dignity is what separates men from rubbish. Ofcourse I will stand on my dignity. There is much diginity in different people. Those who clean the streets have dignity, those who shine shoes have dignity, those who help other people have dignity. A father earning money for his kin has dignity. A mother selling vegetables in palenke has dignity. But I do not find any dignity in hosing down people’s thoughts and proclaiming about being indifferent to other people’s personal stories. This is far from being dignified.
Uhm. I never said that palenkeros are small people. Don’t put anymore words in my mouth.
Keep it hanging man.

hunky

11-15-2005, 02:06 PM

You are doing well Hunky. But you see, my frame of referrence is not people’s personal experiences with their God. I, myself have a personal experience with whatever I believe or had believed. But our collective faith hasn’t added up to what is now happening in the world. That my dear leads to the question that the concept of God is not good or is it?

your asking about whether the concept of God is good so i suppose personal reference and whatever your point of reference is are both important. why blame the concept of God when it is basically a pure concept? as i said before it is man that desecrate the “concept” for their own selfish acts. it is not the flock as a whole but a few so called leaders armed with political ambitions that wrecked havock to the world.

the crusade happened due to many circumstances.
“The origins of the crusades lie in Western developments earlier in the Middle Ages, as well as the deteriorating situation of the Byzantine Empire. The breakdown of the Carolingian Empire in the later 9th century, combined with the relative stabilization of local European borders after the Christianization of the Vikings, Slavs and Magyars meant that there was an entire class of warriors who now had very little to do but fight amongst themselves and terrorize the peasant population. The Church tried to stem this violence with the Peace and Truce of God movements, forbidding violence against certain people at certain times of the year. This was somewhat successful, but trained warriors always sought an outlet for their violence. A plea for help from the Byzantine Emperor Alexius I in opposing attacks thus fell on ready ears. One later outlet was the Reconquistain Spain and Portugal, which at times occupied Iberian and some from elsewhere in Europe in the fight against the Islamic . In Pope Alexander II had given papal blessing to Iberian in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in battle. The Crusades were in part an outlet for an intense religious piety which rose up in the late 11th century among the lay public”.

as you can see, politics played a major part in it. man just twicked things

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