Koizumi's Yasukuni Shrine visit

Raiden

10-18-2005, 10:21 AM

China and South Korea protested when Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi paid homage on Monday at the Yasukuni Shrine for the war dead.

Personally, I have no problems about the Prime Minister visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to honor their fallen soldiers who died for their country. He could be honoring some soldiers who was evil alongside with soldiers who gave all and made the ultimate sacrifice for their country, but that’s their business, not anybody else’s.

How about you as a Filipino? What are your thoughts and feelings about his visit?

Paul

10-18-2005, 10:54 AM

I, too, have no problems with that. The leaders of other countries pay their respects to their soldiers who gave up their lives in previous wars, why not PM Koizumi? The US President pays his respects to the American soldiers in Arlington and I haven’t seen the Japanese protest it. I mean, the soldiers who dropped the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are there, right?

Teddy

10-18-2005, 11:15 AM

The Chinese and the Korean government has been using that issue as a good excuse to extort money and to prevent Japan from rising and taking its leadership in Asia(aside from the fact that Japan is qualified for the leadership), especially China seeking for hegemony around here. Of course, what Japan did in the past was not justifiable, but we have totally relinquished the use of force ever since WW2, and we’ve shown the world that Japan has become one of many peace-loving countries under the peace-oriented constitution while China has been beefing up thier military power threatening surrounding countries. I really think those people who are completely brainwashed by thier goverment should visit here and see for themselves if Japan is ready for another world war. Most people don’t even care about what’s happening around the world. They only think about how to live a good life without any trouble, and I think so are most Chinese and Korean people.
I’m not for nor against Koizumi’s visit to Yasukuni, but he keeps telling that his visit is to determine that Japan should not repeat its stupid past, not to honor those war criminals.
Japan was bombed with nuclear weapons by America as a land of experiment causing to kill hundreds of thousands of people in an instant moment, but almost no one hold a grudge against them any more. We love America!(not Mr. Bush, himself…) I hope the Chinese and Korean government stop their “hate” education against Japan by now and start considering building up a more solid and friendly relationship for the future generations, and Japan should, once more and for the last time, apologize to the world and say we will never repeat such stupidity and compensate war victims alive if necessary.

Raiden

10-18-2005, 11:54 AM

I, too, have no problems with that. The leaders of other countries pay their respects to their soldiers who gave up their lives in previous wars, why not PM Koizumi? The US President pays his respects to the American soldiers in Arlington and I haven’t seen the Japanese protest it. I mean, the soldiers who dropped the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are there, right?

Heck! America still celebrate Columbus Day. The guy who “discovered” The Americas, and wiped-out the indigenous population. You don’t hear the Native Americans throw a hissy fit about it.

docomo

10-18-2005, 12:12 PM

I think visiting the shrine is an act of remembrance and not reverence or (at least that’s what I believed):slight_smile:

Raiden

10-18-2005, 12:16 PM

Hello Teddy,

China could very well be the next superpower of the world, but they have internal issues that threaten that possibility. One example is the ever expanding gap between the rich and the poor, despite of their skyrocketing economy. My theory is that they are looking for a scapegoat to divert the frustrations that their poor have, so they would pay less attention to the system that is keeping them poor.

If only China and Korea could put their past behind them, and focus on the future, and have a closer relationship with Japan, they could achieve unprecedented stability and prosperity.

Teddy

10-18-2005, 12:33 PM

My theory is that they are looking for a scapegoat to divert the frustrations that their poor have, so they would pay less attention to the system that is keeping them poor.

Hi, Raiden. That’s exactly what most critics say. The authority is afraid of another Tenjinmen(?) Square incident happening.

Raiden

10-18-2005, 12:42 PM

Hi, Raiden. That’s exactly what most critics say. The authority is afraid of another Tenjinmen(?) Square incident happening.

Yes. They wouldn’t want another Tiananmen Square Massacre to occur or another Falun Gong movement to develop.

City_rabbit

10-18-2005, 12:44 PM

This issue is very sensitive but thanks for starting the thread Raiden.

I, too, do not see anything wrong with this.
Prime Ministers or any Head of State of any country may visit such shrines and pay respect to those who fought to defend their country, regardless of whether the war they fought for was good or bad, whether they were on the good or bad side…these soldiers sacrificed their lives for their country and any one who wants to pay their respect may do as they wish…that is my personal opinion.

I think China and Korea, they should look for better things to do that “keep minding” what Japan is doing.

So many countries all over the world have been victims of war, but we do not see other nations “bickering” as much as the above mentioned ones…

Teddy

10-18-2005, 12:58 PM

I think China and Korea should get over their “We are the victims” mentality for thier own good. Sticking to the past won’t get things moving on for our better relationship. I’m not saying we should forget about the atrocities done by Japanese military to Chinese and Korean people(of course Filipino people and the people of other Asian countires included). We should teach our children down the generation what we did in the past. But we need to look in the future as well for a better world and think what we can do to achieve it under the constitution which declare no more war.

neblus

10-18-2005, 01:19 PM

That is the point Teddy, right?

Teach the children the facts as to what actually happened hoping na in the future, people will decide to focus “war” in the economic front rather than with guns and bombs (although some would argue the consequences are the same).

Pero until now, Japan:

(1) has removed most facts re World War II from their text books;
(2) Instead of “remorse,” has only shown “defiance” every time the subject is brought up.

So are they really serious sa paghingi ng tawad or not?

Sabi nila Filipinos have very short term memories (we do not even remember the atrocities by Marcos years and that is only 20 years ago!) but we have to remember na parts of China (maybe not the whole China) under the Japanese for more than 10 years and Koreans for more than 20 years - not to mention bringing Koreans and Chinese out of their own homes para maging SLAVE labor in Japan.

So if the Chinese and Koreans are doing this… it is good na some people are keeping watch because Filipinos dont care… :mad:

Raiden

10-18-2005, 01:37 PM

That is the point Teddy, right?

Teach the children the facts as to what actually happened hoping na in the future, people will decide to focus “war” in the economic front rather than with guns and bombs (although some would argue the consequences are the same).

Pero until now, Japan:

(1) has removed most facts re World War II from their text books;
(2) Instead of “remorse,” has only shown “defiance” every time the subject is brought up.

So are they really serious sa paghingi ng tawad or not?

Sabi nila Filipinos have very short term memories (we do not even remember the atrocities by Marcos years and that is only 20 years ago!) but we have to remember na parts of China (maybe not the whole China) under the Japanese for more than 10 years and Koreans for more than 20 years - not to mention bringing Koreans and Chinese out of their own homes para maging SLAVE labor in Japan.

So if the Chinese and Koreans are doing this… it is good na some people are keeping watch because Filipinos dont care… :mad:

Hi Neblus,

It’s not that I don’t care. I just got over it. I let it go, but that doesn’t mean I’ve already forgotten about it. It is pointless to hold a grudge.

Why should we be fixated at the past, when we have the present and the future to worry about.

Learn from the past, act in the present, plan for the future.

pointblank

10-19-2005, 10:14 PM

In my opinion, it’s a case of “we’ll forgive, but we won’t forget.” Or rather, we can’t … or we shouldn’t forget.

I am not saying that China and Korea are correct - because they are indeed milking the issue for all it’s worth. But Japan is making it difficult for the rest of Asia to put the thing behind them by saying one thing then doing another. Every prime minister has categorically said sorry for the war. But every prime minister has also presided over a revision of textbooks to lighten (read: erase) the atrocities inflicted by Japan in the war. And almost every cabinet has had some big-mouth minister who makes some stupid pro-WW2 comment. Plus, it doesn’t help to have renowned Japanese academics and historians appear every once in a while on prime time TV claiming that the Rape of Nanking never took place, and that the photos were doctored by computer graphics. (Right, man… they had Photoshop in the 1940s…)

I have no problems with Koizumi going to Yasukuni; and I do think that he feels genuine compassion for the young soldiers who sacrificed their lives for Japan - those tears at the WW2 museum weren’t fake. But he, too, is milking Yasukuni for maximum political benefit.

If he wants to visit Yasukuni, he should just go quietly, in the dark of early morning, without the official limousine and the battalion of official bodyguards. He should shut up and stop announcing his visits to the press so they can send truckloads of reporters to cover it, then try to claim that it was a “private” visit.

gabby

10-20-2005, 12:34 AM

China and South Korea protested when Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi paid homage on Monday at the Yasukuni Shrine for the war dead.

Personally, I have no problems about the Prime Minister visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to honor their fallen soldiers who died for their country. He could be honoring some soldiers who was evil alongside with soldiers who gave all and made the ultimate sacrifice for their country, but that’s their business, not anybody else’s.

How about you as a Filipino? What are your thoughts and feelings about his visit?

You are absolutely right. I don’t really see any problem about it. But at the outset China and Korea should have done everything they could to opposed the idea of burying the war criminals at the shrine. The psychological downside of the shrine is the thought of honoring the murderers along with the heroes. I think China and Korea shouldn’t be blame for hating the act of a Japanese leader honoring the deads. After all the atrocities of the Japanese’s atrocities in both countries are well documented. And I sincerely sympathise with them. Having said that, in the Philippines, I am appalled at the idea to bury Marcos at the libingan nang mga bayani.

gabby

10-20-2005, 12:42 AM

I, too, have no problems with that. The leaders of other countries pay their respects to their soldiers who gave up their lives in previous wars, why not PM Koizumi? The US President pays his respects to the American soldiers in Arlington and I haven’t seen the Japanese protest it. I mean, the soldiers who dropped the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are there, right?

. . . and I don’t really see a reason why the Japanese should protest. Those bombers are heroes not criminals.

gabby

10-20-2005, 12:48 AM

Heck! America still celebrate Columbus Day. The guy who “discovered” The Americas, and wiped-out the indigenous population. You don’t hear the Native Americans throw a hissy fit about it.

Why should the native americans should make a fuss about honouring Columbus? What would america be like if it were not discovered by Columbus?

Raiden

10-20-2005, 02:23 AM

Why should the native americans should make a fuss about honouring Columbus? What would america be like if it were not discovered by Columbus?

I guess we’ll never find out, would we? :stuck_out_tongue:

Raiden

10-20-2005, 02:43 AM

. . . and I don’t really see a reason why the Japanese should protest. Those bombers are heroes not criminals.

As heroic as the raiders of Pearl Harbor, right?

Which is the lesser of these two evils?

Pearl Harbor Attack = military base

Nukes on Hiroshima & Nagasaki = cities populated by civilians

gabby

10-20-2005, 02:43 AM

I guess we’ll never find out, would we? :stuck_out_tongue:

The point is, it is over. The white race have triumphed. They have perfected a bomb that could kill several thousands of people and a philosophy to justify the killings. But wait they are getting insecure about the gradual rise of China and India. Now they are moulding a concept that only them who are morally capable of wielding militarry might over other country. I guess white people have no other way to go but down. I hope I am wrong. I know I am talking rubbish Heh he heh

gabby

10-20-2005, 12:34 PM

As heroic as the raiders of Pearl Harbor, right?

Which is the lesser of these two evils?

Pearl Harbor Attack = military base

Nukes on Hiroshima & Nagasaki = cities populated by civilians

Heh he he . . . I thnik it is the philosophical twin; The cause and effect. I personaly believe that Japan has to be nuked. They have caused a lot of suffering across asia. That war was really unnecessary. They shouldn’t have provoke the U.S. Up to that time the U.S. was still an isolationist. Anyhow the Japanese deserved it and I mean it.

My only misgiving is why did the allied forces choose Japan to test the bomb. I recently heard that had Japan did not surrender there would have been two more bombs to be dropped in Japan. It really beats me why they did not nuke the Nazis. What do you think?

Dax

10-20-2005, 01:26 PM

Anyhow the Japanese deserved it and I mean it.

Can you say that to the loved ones of those who died from the two bombs? Have you ever been to Hiroshima (or Nagasaki)? I suggest you visit the museum in Hiroshima and see for yourself the remnants of that horror 60 years ago. I myself used to say the very same thing, “They deserved to be nuked.” until I went there.

I think Japan would have still surrendered even if the bombs were dropped in less populated areas. I mean, who wouldn’t be scared to sh*t if they saw those mushroom clouds?

And why TWO? Is one atomic bomb not enough to cause havoc? What do you think?

I am against the Japanese atrocities before and during WWII. But I don’t believe that they deserved to be nuked. No nation does. Well…maybe Sodom and Gomorrah did if indeed they were nuked (crazy theory hi hi hi). But that would be another thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

Some lines from The Fellowship of the Ring (the movie, sa libro medyo iba ang lines):
Frodo: It’s a pity Bilbo didn’t kill him when he had the chance.

Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo’s hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Raiden

10-20-2005, 01:28 PM

Heh he he . . . I thnik it is the philosophical twin; The cause and effect. I personaly believe that Japan has to be nuked. They have caused a lot of suffering across asia. That war was really unnecessary. They shouldn’t have provoke the U.S. Up to that time the U.S. was still an isolationist. Anyhow the Japanese deserved it and I mean it.

My only misgiving is why did the allied forces choose Japan to test the bomb. I recently heard that had Japan did not surrender there would have been two more bombs to be dropped in Japan. It really beats me why they did not nuke the Nazis. What do you think?

Hello Gabby,

I don’t think Japanese civilians deserved to be targeted. If they had fire bomed or nuked a Japanese military installation, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The fire bombing of Tokyo, the carpet bombing of Dresden, the nukes over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, those were violent acts against civilians, which I think was mighty close to terrorism, just like 9/11 was.

Stalin declared war on Japan, and the Soviets already occupied some of the northern islands of Japan, all the allies have to do was wait for Japan to surrender.

gabby

10-20-2005, 01:46 PM

Can you say that to the loved ones of those who died from the two bombs? Have you ever been to Hiroshima (or Nagasaki)? I suggest you visit the museum in Hiroshima and see for yourself the remnants of that horror 60 years ago. I myself used to say the very same thing, “They deserved to be nuked.” until I went there.

I think Japan would have still surrendered even if the bombs were dropped in less populated areas. I mean, who wouldn’t be scared to sh*t if they saw those mushroom clouds?

And why TWO? Is one atomic bomb not enough to cause havoc? What do you think?

I am against the Japanese atrocities before and during WWII. But I don’t believe that they deserved to be nuked. No nation does. Well…maybe Sodom and Gomorrah did if indeed they were nuked (crazy theory hi hi hi). But that would be another thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

Some lines from LOTR (The Fellowship of the Ring):

Hey I like the quote myself you know? That is very inspirational but very hard to live and practice. Before you know it you are already taken for the ride. I love it really no fancy.

Actually, I have seen and read all what happened in Hiroshima and Nagazaki and it didn’t change my view about the mess caused by the Japanese themselves. Certainly I feel bad about it because I am human. But war is a war and the Japanese have asked for it. Have you read the Nanking massacre and stories about babies in the P.I. being skewed on their bayonets? Of women being gang raped? Of Filipinos beheaded for not cooperating with them? I heard all the hideous facts about them from the mouth of my grandma.

Everytime my wife tries to theorise about their defeat in that war, I snap her out of it and told her that they need to be stopped because they were evil and they really have no reason to march off across asia and murder people and kids. Through my wife I could sense that Japanese have thought about the wars as game and the opportunities to exercise their ingenuities and superiority. They seem not guilty about it. But I do really think that we should put it back behind us now. But the Chinese and Koreans really have valid reason to feel bitter towards Japan. It was them who experienced the brunt of Japanese cruelties and inhuman acts like slave labor and wanton killings of Koreans and Chinese.

Paul

10-20-2005, 02:19 PM

The truth is, nobody knows the real horrors of war except those who have experienced it. I have heard a lot of stories from my parents and my grandparents about the war but I only believe those that they have experienced themselves. Imho, the massacres and other war atrocities that took place could only be told truthfully by those who have witnessed it. I am not denying the fact that the Japanese soldiers were guilty of these war atrocities, though.

Even Filipinos who lived during the war had different experiences. My mother’s family for one, were fortunate enough to escape the Japanese Army through the help of a Japanese doctor who befriended my grandfather. That, in spite of the fact that my grandfather’s brothers were guerillas and were working for the US forces (one of his brothers is a USAFFE veteran). So I guess, each Filipino who experienced the war has his/her own story to tell.

War is war, it brings out the worst in man and it’s something that should never be repeated. But I guess some people just never learn.

Dax

10-20-2005, 02:52 PM

Have you read the Nanking massacre and stories about babies in the P.I. being skewed on their bayonets? Of women being gang raped? Of Filipinos beheaded for not cooperating with them? I heard all the hideous facts about them from the mouth of my grandma.

Yes I know all of those stories, including the Rape of Nanking. My grandma, now in her early 90s, was an informer to the Filipino guerillas during WWII. She told me all sort of stories, most of which where unbelievably horrible things that the Japanese Imperial Army did. But just because the JIA did all sorts of evil everywhere does not mean the Japanese civilians (95% of the deaths) deserve to be nuked.

I do agree though that many Japanese do not seem to feel remorseful of what their ancestors did. :mad: Some of them seem to be ignorant of the truth (textbook thing?). Worse, the others really believe that the JIA was sent to liberate their fellow Asians from the white people (brainwashed?).

Stalin declared war on Japan, and the Soviets already occupied some of the northern islands of Japan, all the allies have to do was wait for Japan to surrender.

I agree with that.

Raiden

10-20-2005, 04:11 PM

The point is, it is over. The white race have triumphed. They have perfected a bomb that could kill several thousands of people and a philosophy to justify the killings. But wait they are getting insecure about the gradual rise of China and India. Now they are moulding a concept that only them who are morally capable of wielding militarry might over other country. I guess white people have no other way to go but down. I hope I am wrong. I know I am talking rubbish Heh he heh

Race is not much of an issue today compared to 50 years ago. I believe majority of the Caucasians today are decent, just, tolerant, and morally conscious. But there are still some who have a god complex or WASP mentality who have a false sense of entitlement about the world around us. Those are the kind of people we should be aware of, especially those who have power and influence. That goes for any other group of people too, not just the Caucasians.

I deeply admire Japan’s courage, determination, and ferocity to preserve their culture and identity during the time when almost half of the nation in Asia was under western control. The Philippines was under Spain for 333 years and then under the Americans for almost 50 years. Indonesia was under the Dutch, Vietnam was under the French, India and some parts of China were under the British. As for Manchuria and Korea it would’ve been under the Russians, if Japan had not won the Russo-Japanese war.

I’m not justifying Japan’s atrocities, but they are not the only ones with blood on their hands.

I can’t fault China’s military build up today, for they wouldn’t want to lose another Opium Wars now, would they?

I truly hope that everybody learns from history, so we wouldn’t be condemned to repeat it, for our sake, for our children’s sake, for humanity’s sake.

hunky

10-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Stalin declared war on Japan, and the Soviets already occupied some of the northern islands of Japan, all the allies have to do was wait for Japan to surrender.

it was a belief by the allies at the time that waiting for the japanese to surrender would be more inhumane because waiting would mean blockading japan–meaning no outside sources of raw materials, food etc,. they assessed that past blockades have caused incredible amount of (slow) deaths among civilians due to hunger. plus, letting the russians in the japan war were not in the agenda of Churchill and Truman. they feared communism, to reign in (half) of japan–the victors’ trophy. they seem to be correct in trying to leave the russians out, otherwise we would have seen another divided nation like vietnam (not anymore but with a costly and futile war) and korea.

some historians believe that if the bombs weren’t dropped, the war in japan would have been longer, more bloody and would have cost more on both sides. nukes weren’t dropped in nazi germany but the continuous and extended aerial bombings caused more deaths (both civilians and soldiers) than the two nukes. another example is the bombing of Manila, this caused tens of thousands of civilian deaths. although the japanese were loosing the war, they were still determined to fight to death. so nuke or nuke not? imagine how difficult and morally depressing it might have been if you were in Truman’s shoes. if i were him, i might have easily stepped down as president of the US of A.

the japanese as claimed by some intelligence report were deploying hundreds of thousands of soldiers on all fronts they thought would be the allies’ landing area. actually, the japanese were given the warning that if they do not unconditionally surrender, the allies will be forced to use the most powerful bomb man ever made. the japanese militarists were skeptic and believed that unconditional surrender is out of the question. unconditional surrender to them meant the abolition of their royalty which to them is the symbol of their identity. to them loosing their identity is worse than death.

when the first bomb was dropped, nobody in hiroshima actually knew what hit them, the bomb carried by 3 parachutes just exploded over them. they were expecting a series of bombings but not to this effect in a single drop. suddenly, there was no contact and no warning report from the hiroshima. tokyo was in disarray they did not act promptly to surrender. and so the second was bomb and the rest is history.

the allies only had two bombs at the time (it would have just been a matter of time to make another one but the allies won’t gamble) so they thought they can’t demonstrate its tremendous effect by bombing a desolate location first-- mountains would have reduced its impact. and by demonstrating first, the allies would have lost half of its bomb which would have given the japanese more bargaining power. the decision to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki is based on the allies’ intelligence that both cities would prove to get maximum damage, therefore, causing fear and eventually force japan to surrender. both cities have military factories and military camps but has a big share of civilians. another reason is the weather, in order to cause maximum damage, precision is important. both cities have clearer skies than tokyo’s foggy sky. shoot, imagine if one bomb was dropped in tokyo.

today, the blaming game goes on as to why the bombs were dropped:

  1. the japanese deserved it for bombing pearl harbor and its atrocities.
  2. the allies should have not pushed for unconditional surrender–the americans
    eventually retained the royaltyy anyway,
  3. even the pro-peace japanese group are being blamed for not pushing the emperor
    enough to order the militarist side to stop.
  4. the emperor is being blamed for not doing anything to stop the bombs. although the
    militarist government was powerful, they would have heeded the emperor’s order as
    proved by their willingness to surrender if the throne is kept. besides he is considered
    godso, any orders from him would have been given some serious considerations. this is why
    some argue that the emperor should have been hanged.

disclaimer: this is based on my readings a few months ago. my post is not an accurate account of what took place. it’s just based on what i recalled which is subject to mistake and bias.

bakit di na lang kasi alisi ang remains nung enshrined class A war criminals sa yasukuni. that way, japan’s apologies would have more credibility. i can’t blame the chinese and the koreans to make a fuss out of it. in shintoism, visitng a shrine is not merely a visit but a worship to the departed. imagine if Chancellor schroeder (tama pa rin ba?) of germany paid his respect to his fallen countryman by visiting a cemetary that houses hitler’s remain. whooah, just imagine the reactions from all over europe and america.

i’m not against koizumi visiting yasukuni but as a head of estate, he should know how volatile the issue is. maybe his fulfilling the wishes of the war veterans and conservatives (some by the way are still bitter of their lost to the allies) who voted for him. by the end of the day, it’s not just a personal visit but a political fulfillment of promises made. war is evil and i can’t blame somebody if he/she sincerely gets paranoid even of the slightest suspiscious thing that abound.

just like one said, we should forgive but we should not forget the past because we can learn from it. i just hope peace will triumph in all corners of this small world of ours.

City_rabbit

10-20-2005, 07:00 PM

Most of you just talk about the wars.
But have you been in any war?
Do you know how it feels to be in a war?

I have not been in any war and I hope that I will never experience any war.

All I know is that, war is cruel, war kills the human being in us - war is crazy.
There should be peace in all countries - that is ideal.
I just hope and pray for peace all around the world.

To start blaming who was bad in so and so wars - is not fair.
We should try to understand the situations then… why they did such atrocities - there had to be reasons.

But to bomb innocent people and do such atomic experiments on people?
That leaves me -asking- what were their reasons?

Same as talking about the cruelties of the Japanese - and how mean they were in the war- I have heard a lot of things about what the Japanese did during the war- but in this present generation - I think all we can do is - accept that - those were realities of war.
But to criticise and at the same time live in their country? I think that is not in good light.
:confused:

Anyway, let me share this with all of you.
I had the honor of meeting someone during our last visit to the Philippines.
I introduced him to my Japanese husband -
the great man held our hands close to his chest…and said “the war was crazy, I was against the Japan’s policies and I fought them, but I was not against the Japanese people”…“I admire and respect the Japanese for their discipline, Filipinos should follow their good points…” He kept on talking to us about the war and more on his beliefs.

Then at the end, he told us - “you are an ideal couple - there should be more people like you- Japanese and Filipino, loving and living together in peace.
I am so happy to have met you both.” That was the first and the last time we met him. That was in January, and he passed away last August. But I am proud to say that we met a great man, a great leader…Ka Luis Taruc.

Janer

10-20-2005, 07:34 PM

Most of you just talk about the wars.
But have you been in any war?
Do you know how it feels to be in a war?

I have not been in any war and I hope that I will never experience any war.

All I know is that, war is cruel, war kills the human being in us - war is crazy.
There should be peace in all countries - that is ideal.
I just hope and pray for peace all around the world.

To start blaming who was bad in so and so wars - is not fair.
We should try to understand the situations then… why they did such atrocities - there had to be reasons.

But to bomb innocent people and do such atomic experiments on people?
That leaves me -asking- what were their reasons?

As you said before
To start blaming who was bad in so and so wars - is not fair.
We should try to understand the situations then… why they did such atrocities - there had to be reasons.
Better accept that those were the realities of war.

Same as talking about the cruelties of the Japanese - and how mean they were in the war- I have heard a lot of things about what the Japanese did during the war- but in this present generation - I think all we can do is - accept that - those were realities of war.
But to criticise and at the same time live in their country? I think that is not in good light.
:confused:
Hmmm… those Japanese who are also critical of their government, where will they go?

City_rabbit

10-20-2005, 07:55 PM

Hmmm… those Japanese who are also critical of their government, where will they go?

Well Janer, I was referring to foreigners like us, in other host countries…

:slight_smile:

hunky

10-20-2005, 08:35 PM

Same as talking about the cruelties of the Japanese - and how mean they were in the war- I have heard a lot of things about what the Japanese did during the war- but in this present generation - I think all we can do is - accept that - those were realities of war.
But to criticise and at the same time live in their country? I think that is not in good light.
:confused:

it depends on the situation, living in a foreign land doesn’t require us to be mum about things that are happening around us. as foreigners here, we can praise complain and criticize to some extent especially if our human rights are being trumpled upon.

in the case of WWII, the scope of the japanese cruelty is so enormous some would really feel the itch to criticize them if they don’t sincerely apologize and come to terms with their past. the germans made efforts to sincerely apologize and help heal the wound. the americans can sometimes be hypocrites but they accepted that they wronged and apologized when they interned japanese americans in camps, they are trying to come to terms with their history of slavery or their massacre of the indians–but americans can’t seem to stop their imperialist policies huh. why can’t the japanese do the same? why can’t some of them accept the fact that they did something terrible? anybody is capable of making a mistake but it’s important to accept faults and do something about it, not running away from them.

the japanese were a peaceful people before the war, but they turned out to be terrible or beasts in war–even as individuals. the cruelty and fault isn’t a monopoly of the japanese but the extent of their cruelty is so incomprehensible to a sane man. it’s a damning reality of war that is very difficult to swallow.however, it should be noted that not the entirety of a nation is to be blamed but it is its very government that should get most of the blame. this just reminded me of our sorry government.

i also recognize that some japanese did good things during the war. and we should be thankful to them. i like japan and its people. it’s undeniable that the japanese of today are peaceful, generous, and disciplined but by conceiling factual history to their children, history might just repeat itself. in fact, some japanese feel like they were the real victims because it’s what some in their government is hinting if not blatantly telling them.

anyway,all agree that war is evil and shouldn’t happen again. this is all that matters.

p.s
i don’t want China to become a superpower even if their asians. all i can see “right now” is that they have the makings of a two-face bully. they might become the neo-imperialists. they’re cheap products are inundating the philippines to the expense of the filipino manufacturers.:smiley: and they’re smuggling or manufacturing shabu and pirated products to the philippines.:smiley: :smiley:

Teddy

10-20-2005, 08:41 PM

That war was really unnecessary. They shouldn’t have provoke the U.S. Up to that time the U.S. was still an isolationist. Anyhow the Japanese deserved it and I mean it.

Japan decided to fight the war because they felt threatened that it was them who was going to get invaded next sooner or later by major western countries that had almost completed their “world division”. They had successfully done it in Africa, South America, Middle East, Oceania and Asia. Japan was one of the last remaining targets for them. Some said it was only self defence. Japan’s ideal was to free Asia from the western influences and build a dream land in Asia which turned out to go awry in the end…

Lapu-Lapu and Hose Rizal both fought for thier country to maintain thier independence.

America/England should consider why they are being under terrorist attack. Terrorists are not terrorists by nature. It’s thier own form of resistence against the super powers.

Anyway, we are all victims of stupid goverments. No one wants wars, nor did the Japanese teen soldiers who died in Kamikaze attack ordered by thier crazy leaders…

gabby

10-20-2005, 09:05 PM

it depends on the situation, living in a foreign land doesn’t require us to be mum about things that are happening around us. as foreigners here, we can praise complain and criticize to some extent especially if our human rights are being trumpled upon.

in the case of WWII, the scope of the japanese cruelty is so enormous some would really feel the itch to criticize them if they don’t sincerely apologize and come to terms with their past. the germans made efforts to sincerely apologize and help heal the wound. the americans can sometimes be hypocrites but they accepted that they wronged and apologized when they interned japanese americans in camps, they are trying to come to terms with their history of slavery or their massacre of the indians–but americans can’t seem to stop their imperialist policies huh. why can’t the japanese do the same? why can’t some of them accept the fact that they did something terrible? anybody is capable of making a mistake but it’s important to accept faults and do something about it, not running away from them.

the japanese were a peaceful people before the war, but they turned out to be terrible or beasts in war–even as individuals. the cruelty and fault isn’t a monopoly of the japanese but the extent of their cruelty is so incomprehensible to a sane man. it’s a damning reality of war that is very difficult to swallow.however, it should be noted that not the entirety of a nation is to be blamed but it is its very government that should get most of the blame. this just reminded me of our sorry government.

i also recognize that some japanese did good things during the war. and we should be thankful to them. i like japan and its people. it’s undeniable that the japanese of today are peaceful, generous, and disciplined but by conceiling factual history to their children, history might just repeat itself. in fact, some japanese feel like they were the real victims because it’s what some in their government is hinting if not blatantly telling them.

anyway,all agree that war is evil and shouldn’t happen again. this is all that matters.

p.s
i don’t want China to become a superpower even if their asians. all i can see “right now” is that they have the makings of a two-face bully. they might become the neo-imperialists. they’re cheap products are inundating the philippines to the expense of the filipino manufacturers.:smiley: and they’re smuggling or manufacturing shabu and pirated products to the philippines.:smiley: :smiley:

They are already a major power in Asia. My imagination is that. When a Hitlerite rise to power in China, he is going to test the water by retaking Taiwan by force. If they can get away with it, do you know who they are going to take? They will take Luzon down to Manila then the whole country and the domino will start falling until Japan get surrounded with her potential allies like Philippines and Indonesia in the hands of China, Japan will certainly fall and thus the complete vengeance. Isn’t it brilliant? Just take the clue from China’s interest of rehabilitating the North Railway of PNR in Luzon. They are laying the groundwork for that plan. China is extra nice to the Philippines now which really alarmed Uncle Sam. We are in extreme danger of becoming China in the middle of this century and I really hope the Pinoys should clear their act now by strengthening the Government, re-arm the AFP so we can help Taiwan,Japan and Australia to fight China. The whole Korea will certainly side with China no question about it. What about India? India will be busy with its war against Pakistan and if she is not careful, China will take part of its territory. It might not happen in our lifetime but it will certainly take place. It is the only way to defeat Japan.

City_rabbit

10-20-2005, 09:06 PM

it depends on the situation, living in a foreign land doesn’t require us to be mum about things that are happening around us. as foreigners here, we can praise complain and criticize to some extent especially if our human rights are being trumpled upon.

anyway,all agree that war is evil and shouldn’t happen again. this is all that matters.

p.s
i don’t want China to become a superpower even if their asians. all i can see “right now” is that they have the makings of a two-face bully. they might become the neo-imperialists. they’re cheap products are inundating the philippines to the expense of the filipino manufacturers.:smiley: and they’re smuggling or manufacturing shabu and pirated products to the philippines.:smiley: :smiley:

Okay, thanks for the advise on that…it depends.
Yes, we agree- war should not happen again. : )
And most of all- China- they should not become a superpower.
And with all the bad things they are doing in the Philippines- why do we allow so many Chinese to stay in our country? :wink:

I personaly believe that Japan has to be nuked. They have caused a lot of suffering across asia. That war was really unnecessary. They shouldn’t have provoke the U.S. Up to that time the U.S. was still an isolationist. Anyhow the Japanese deserved it and I mean it.

Gabby, forgive me but I think you are the most cruel person
I have ever heard , saying that the Japanese deserved to be nuked.
I just pray to God that you know what you are saying.

gabby

10-20-2005, 09:25 PM

Gabby, forgive me but I think you are the most cruel person
I have ever heard , saying that the Japanese deserved to be nuked.
I just pray to God that you know what you are saying.

Of course my dear Rabbit. I know what I am talking about. The Japanese deserved it. It was a war my dear which they have started in Asia-Pacific. I really agree with the nuking of Japan. Had it not been nuked they would have killed more in a war that was really senseless.

Just a question Rabbit. What is it that you are so hot about A.Bomb? You know well that the Allies had reason about the urgency of nuking Japan. What is so immoral about it? I mean it already happened nothing can change it. What are you beefing about?:slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

hunky

10-20-2005, 09:47 PM

Japan decided to fight the war because they felt threatened that it was them who was going to get invaded next sooner or later by major western countries that had almost completed their “world division”. They had successfully done it in Africa, South America, Middle East, Oceania and Asia. Japan was one of the last remaining targets for them. Some said it was only self defence. Japan’s ideal was to free Asia from the western influences and build a dream land in Asia which turned out to go awry in the end…

Lapu-Lapu and Hose Rizal both fought for thier country to maintain thier independence.

America/England should consider why they are being under terrorist attack. Terrorists are not terrorists by nature. It’s thier own form of resistence against the super powers.

this is the lamest excuse we could get from japan if they did. what person in his right state of mind would burn down his neighbor’s house just to make sure that the bully from outside his neighborhood woudn’t touch him? if lapu-lapu felt threatened by magellan, he wouldn’t have raped and burned his island neighbor just to show magellan how strong he is.

japan swiftly defeated russia decades before the war. this showed her might. then she became greedy she conquered korea and China. to build up its army and expand its empire, she needed to conquer its neighbors for resources. her claim to free Asia from the western influences and build a dream land in Asia is a deceitful propaganda.

if japan felt the threat of being invaded. she could have formed an alliance with the allies instead of joining the “bad guy” hitler. the US wouldn’t be forced to slap a trade embargo with japan. doing this could have ended the war sooner. if the US had its intention of invading japan. US could have easily done so in the second half of 19th century but she did not. remember Com. Perry? the guy who forced japan to open for trade? japan were technically swords only nation at the time (japan used to have its firepower rivalring the westerners but abandoned it) and perry had the modern weaponry.

the philippines was a already a commonwealth and is preparing for its independence before the war. japan’s invasion of the philippines only made things worse or worst.

a terrorist is a terrorist because he/she chose to. i can’t think of any that could possibly justify a person blowing himself up and inflict damage/terror to innocent people.

puting tainga

10-20-2005, 09:55 PM

Ito ang URL ng Wikipedia English, tungkol sa Yasukuni Shrine.

Contrary to popular belief, the shrine honors not only the WW2 soldiers, but also all the 11 wars Japan fought from the start of Meiji era.

(Some wars are internal, Meiji government against samurais.
The South-West War is considered to be the model of “The Last Samurai” starring Tom Cruise.)

Out of nearly 2.5 million “souls”, only 14 are A-class war criminals.

Also note that not all souls are Japanese.
Not a few Koreans and Taiwanese people who fought as colonial troops are honored, too. (Because they fought for Japan.)

Teddy

10-21-2005, 10:06 AM

this is the lamest excuse we could get from japan if they did. what person in his right state of mind would burn down his neighbor’s house just to make sure that the bully from outside his neighborhood woudn’t touch him? if lapu-lapu felt threatened by magellan, he wouldn’t have raped and burned his island neighbor just to show magellan how strong he is.

japan swiftly defeated russia decades before the war. this showed her might. then she became greedy she conquered korea and China. to build up its army and expand its empire, she needed to conquer its neighbors for resources. her claim to free Asia from the western influences and build a dream land in Asia is a deceitful propaganda.

if japan felt the threat of being invaded. she could have formed an alliance with the allies instead of joining the “bad guy” hitler. the US wouldn’t be forced to slap a trade embargo with japan. doing this could have ended the war sooner. if the US had its intention of invading japan. US could have easily done so in the second half of 19th century but she did not. remember Com. Perry? the guy who forced japan to open for trade? japan were technically swords only nation at the time (japan used to have its firepower rivalring the westerners but abandoned it) and perry had the modern weaponry.

the philippines was a already a commonwealth and is preparing for its independence before the war. japan’s invasion of the philippines only made things worse or worst.

a terrorist is a terrorist because he/she chose to. i can’t think of any that could possibly justify a person blowing himself up and inflict damage/terror to innocent people.

Hi, hunky! Thanks for your comment. Yeah, I agree with you on that.
Japan was quite a closed country under Tokugawa Shogun regime until one day Perry came and forced her to open the market. From the time on, Japan has been included, whether she liked it or not, in member of the world history realizing that the super powers were just around the corner. Japan is such a small island like the Philippines, once she gets invaded, there’s no way out. She just needed some “buffer zone” to prevent them from invading deeply into her land. They needed a preemptive attack before they attacked her, which means the end of the world for her.
Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying what she did was right. No one can be on the right state of mind when you are in danger. I don’t know what Perry was thinking at that time, but Japan was really afraid the country would be erased if they were not going to confront them, which led to Meiji Revolution to catch up with the super powers. Maybe the action she took was wrong. The point is who started? The enemy’s enemy is your ally. She had no choise to ally with Germany. It’s politics. But again, I’m not saying that is the right decision. When you are surrounded by your enemies, you would do anything to survive whether it is a right thing or wrong. Look at Israel. I’m only talking politics here.

I also think the “dream land” is only a propaganda to justify the war.

But I still think that terrorists are man-made monsters just like Frankenstein. They are created. I don’t think they blow themselves up just for fun. Sorry if I’m wrong.

History is written with bias. Two people see the same thing differently if they are at odds with each other. One says, “You’re wrong and I’m right!”, and the other one says exactly the same thing. The Japanese history is written in a way to defend its act, and I think the American history is also written in that way. I don’t think there is ever going to be only one world history that any country won’t disagree.

Japan has been apologizing many times, and loan and give zillions of funds(ODA, etc.) to the victimized countries including the Philippines(airport, road, train, etc.). There are many JICA people all around the world to help develop those countries.The Chinese govenment just don’t tell thier people about that fact because they will lose its face. I don’t know about other countries…

As long as Japan keeps its troops in Iraq, there’s always a threat of terrorist attacks against Japan. We are in dilemma where we desparately need protection from the U.S. for the possible attacks from North Korea and commotion from the possible Taiwan-China war…

I really wish that someday we could all live safely without any threat from anything.

Have a nice day!

hunky

10-21-2005, 02:12 PM

But I still think that terrorists are man-made monsters just like Frankenstein. They are created. I don’t think they blow themselves up just for fun. Sorry if I’m wrong.

Japan has been apologizing many times, and loan and give zillions of funds(ODA, etc.) to the victimized countries including the Philippines(airport, road, train, etc.). There are many JICA people all around the world to help develop those countries.The Chinese govenment just don’t tell thier people about that fact because they will lose its face. I don’t know about other countries…

I really wish that someday we could all live safely without any threat from anything.

Have a nice day!

yap, man is molded by many external factors so i think he can be brainwashed but i also believe that it’s a matter of choice and conscience to the individual.

about japan’s apologies, they do apologize but its sincerety is almost always questionable. japan do not give ODA’s absolutely for free. some are given in the form of loans. the problem here is that Peso is devaluating, in effect, the philippines is paying more interest. also, the beneficiaries need to give something back like lower tariffs for japanese products which would eventually amount to millions of dollars of lost national income. plus, protecting the interests of japanese firms in their respective countries, meaning ODA funds are also utilized to make the infrastructures needed by japanese companies to operate efficiently. so it turns out there is a trade-off in the long run.

“I really wish that someday we could all live safely without any threat from anything”
i do hope so!

Teddy

10-21-2005, 02:34 PM

japan do not give ODA’s absolutely for free. some are given in the form of loans. the problem here is that Peso is devaluating, in effect, the philippines is paying more interest. also, the beneficiaries need to give something back like lower tariffs for japanese products which would eventually amount to millions of dollars of lost national income. plus, protecting the interests of japanese firms in their respective countries, meaning ODA funds are also utilized to make the infrastructures needed by japanese companies to operate efficiently. so it turns out there is a trade-off in the long run.

Thanks for your input, hunky:) Yeah, I read about this somewhere… Forgive my ignorance:O And I admire your deep knowledge on this matter!

I do feel sad about Japan not being understood… I don’t know about the govenment, but the people(except for some extremists…) feel really sorry about this, and that’s why we are so sensitive even about having the self defence force.

Nice talking to you, hunky and thanks again!

hunky

10-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Thanks for your input, hunky:) Yeah, I read about this somewhere… Forgive my ignorance:O And I admire your deep knowledge on this matter!

I do feel sad about Japan not being understood… I don’t know about the govenment, but the people(except for some extremists…) feel really sorry about this, and that’s why we are so sensitive even about having the self defence force.

Nice talking to you, hunky and thanks again!

please do not say you’re being ignorant and you don’t have to say you are sorry for something you did not know. now i feel like a moron.:confused: :smiley: this is a forum so, it’s kind of giving each other opinion and information. it’s a way of knowing things on all sides so we can be more open-minded. that is, looking at different perspectives makes us become more considerate of each other’s differences.

japan’s apology is sometimes questionable not because of its people but because of some of its leaders’ actions. i like the ordinary japanese for their kindness and i admire them for their discipline. anyway, let’s face it, it’s always our (government) leaders that seem to mess things up.

i first experienced Japan’s generosity in my small town when the a JICA truck picked up garbage in our neighborhood. i do not belittle japan’s ODA (everybody should be greatful of japan’s generosity through its ODA). helping each other is the important thing. so more power to countries like japan who are ready to help.

Teddy

10-21-2005, 03:21 PM

japan’s apology is sometimes questionable not because of its people but because of some of its leaders’ actions.

Hmmm… that’s true in that old veteran Japanese politicians speak ambiguously.

I guess Koizumi is quite popular because he speaks out, speaks quite frankly of what’s in his mind(good or bad) and acts according to what he says to the public.

pointblank

10-21-2005, 09:39 PM

Japan has been apologizing many times, and loan and give zillions of funds(ODA, etc.) to the victimized countries including the Philippines(airport, road, train, etc.). There are many JICA people all around the world to help develop those countries.!

Hello, Teddy.

The thread has somewhat shifted to an evaluation of Japan’s role in the war - so let me comment on your comment above by going back to the original topic - Koizumi’s visit of Yasukuni.

This is precisely why Koizumi’s visits (including the way he shrewdly publicizes it to satisfy the ultra-rightist voting bloc) are so damaging! One visit by Koizumi wipes out all the capital of goodwill that has been built-up by all these selfless JICA workers. You can spend your tax money building bridges and dams in poor countries (and they will not even realize that their water is from a Japanese-funded dam hundreds of miles away); but it will all go down the drain by just one TV or newspaper image of Koizumi in his haori hakama visiting Yasukuni.

I don’t really care what China & Korea feels - their politicians are taking advantage of the issue for their own vested interests anyway. What should be more painful is that the Japanese do not seem to realize that if anyone is hurt by those Koizumi visits, it is ultimately the Japanese themselves!!

I’ve said it before, if Koizumi wants to visit Yasukuni, go ahead, this is a free world - but shut up, stop announcing it, and just go quietly in the dark of the night!

More than the Chinese and Koreans, it is the Japanese who should be very angry!!

likeable

10-21-2005, 11:35 PM

Hello, Teddy.

The thread has somewhat shifted to an evaluation of Japan’s role in the war - so let me comment on your comment above by going back to the original topic - Koizumi’s visit of Yasukuni.

This is precisely why Koizumi’s visits (including the way he shrewdly publicizes it to satisfy the ultra-rightist voting bloc) are so damaging! One visit by Koizumi wipes out all the capital of goodwill that has been built-up by all these selfless JICA workers. You can spend your tax money building bridges and dams in poor countries (and they will not even realize that their water is from a Japanese-funded dam hundreds of miles away); but it will all go down the drain by just one TV or newspaper image of Koizumi in his haori hakama visiting Yasukuni.

I don’t really care what China & Korea feels - their politicians are taking advantage of the issue for their own vested interests anyway. What should be more painful is that the Japanese do not seem to realize that if anyone is hurt by those Koizumi visits, it is ultimately the Japanese themselves!!

I’ve said it before, if Koizumi wants to visit Yasukuni, go ahead, this is a free world - but shut up, stop announcing it, and just go quietly in the dark of the night!

More than the Chinese and Koreans, it is the Japanese who should be very angry!!

yeah, very well said!

gabby

10-22-2005, 01:00 AM

Hello, Teddy.

The thread has somewhat shifted to an evaluation of Japan’s role in the war - so let me comment on your comment above by going back to the original topic - Koizumi’s visit of Yasukuni.

This is precisely why Koizumi’s visits (including the way he shrewdly publicizes it to satisfy the ultra-rightist voting bloc) are so damaging! One visit by Koizumi wipes out all the capital of goodwill that has been built-up by all these selfless JICA workers. You can spend your tax money building bridges and dams in poor countries (and they will not even realize that their water is from a Japanese-funded dam hundreds of miles away); but it will all go down the drain by just one TV or newspaper image of Koizumi in his haori hakama visiting Yasukuni.

I don’t really care what China & Korea feels - their politicians are taking advantage of the issue for their own vested interests anyway. What should be more painful is that the Japanese do not seem to realize that if anyone is hurt by those Koizumi visits, it is ultimately the Japanese themselves!!

I’ve said it before, if Koizumi wants to visit Yasukuni, go ahead, this is a free world - but shut up, stop announcing it, and just go quietly in the dark of the night!

More than the Chinese and Koreans, it is the Japanese who should be very angry!!

The way I see it. Kuizumi just want to assert Japan’s right to honour their dead. It is the nation’s tradition and culture. China nd Korea, no matter how much they are hurt but they should acknowledge Japan’s sovereignty to act on its own without external pressure. The past is past. There are so many things that was made wrong by the Allies (which China belonged under Chian Kai Shek) right after the war. I think wrong is an overstatement mystery should be the right word. Like the case of the Imperial family and the permission to bury the criminals at Yasukuni shrine. China and Korea should be blamed for not exerting themselves enough against the burial of the murderers at the shrine which is meant to be for soldiers who brought honours and glory to Japan. And I dare to add that it is about time for Japan to amend their constitution. They should start re-arming their military before it is too late. Uncle Sam will not always be around to defend Taiwan and Japan. As for South Korea, it is just a matter of time before the two koreas get reunited and the Yankees kick out. Koizumi’s action is just an overture towards the goal of re-arming Nihon. Thus China and Korea should shut up now and embrace reality.

hunky

10-22-2005, 02:42 PM

in my point of view, the scale of japan’s brutality in WWII is enormous that the japanese should remove the enshrined war A criminals from yasukuni. these leaders are symbols of japan’s past war atrocity and we know symbols can have tremendous impact on man’s psyche. today, Koizumi is the symbol of japanese leadership so as much as he excuses himself by repeatedly saying his visits are private, people would never believe that. pointblank’s resolution for koizumi (i.e. visit w/o the media blitz) might sound satirical but i see nothing impossible about it.:smiley:

i see nothing wrong with japan having an army. they have the right to self-defense as much as we do but it’s leaders should not send the wrong signals to the world. wanting to re-arm then praying indirectly (but knowingly) to war criminals “may” signal doom. i can’t blame people to be paranoid.

Teddy

10-22-2005, 03:07 PM

in my point of view, the scale of japan’s brutality in WWII is enormous that the japanese should remove the enshrined war A criminals from yasukuni. these leaders are symbols of japan’s past war atrocity and we know symbols can have tremendous impact on man’s psyche.

Hi, hunky.

That’s what most people thought at first, but according to the ex-Yasukuni Shrine’s top official who was interviewed on TV the other day, all the souls there were “blended” into one(“goushi” in Japanese), just like coffee with milk and sugar. You can’t just take sugar or milk out of coffee once blended.

Teddy

10-22-2005, 03:30 PM

Hello, Teddy.

The thread has somewhat shifted to an evaluation of Japan’s role in the war - so let me comment on your comment above by going back to the original topic - Koizumi’s visit of Yasukuni.

This is precisely why Koizumi’s visits (including the way he shrewdly publicizes it to satisfy the ultra-rightist voting bloc) are so damaging! One visit by Koizumi wipes out all the capital of goodwill that has been built-up by all these selfless JICA workers. You can spend your tax money building bridges and dams in poor countries (and they will not even realize that their water is from a Japanese-funded dam hundreds of miles away); but it will all go down the drain by just one TV or newspaper image of Koizumi in his haori hakama visiting Yasukuni.

I don’t really care what China & Korea feels - their politicians are taking advantage of the issue for their own vested interests anyway. What should be more painful is that the Japanese do not seem to realize that if anyone is hurt by those Koizumi visits, it is ultimately the Japanese themselves!!

I’ve said it before, if Koizumi wants to visit Yasukuni, go ahead, this is a free world - but shut up, stop announcing it, and just go quietly in the dark of the night!

More than the Chinese and Koreans, it is the Japanese who should be very angry!!

Sorry about that, pointblank-san:O

You’re absolutely right. I thought that’s what “private” means:D

hunky

10-22-2005, 04:29 PM

Hi, hunky.

That’s what most people thought at first, but according to the ex-Yasukuni Shrine’s top official who was interviewed on TV the other day, all the souls there were “blended” into one(“goushi” in Japanese), just like coffee with milk and sugar. You can’t just take sugar or milk out of coffee once blended.

oh, really? then it’s too impracitical to do what i suggested. then let yasukuni be.:smiley:
wait, how about their names? are they engraved on some sort of wood or blocks? these engravings would equate to busts or statues, removing and transferring these to a private place would be an alternative. if not, then shouganai

Raiden

10-24-2005, 03:47 AM

My only misgiving is why did the allied forces choose Japan to test the bomb. I recently heard that had Japan did not surrender there would have been two more bombs to be dropped in Japan. It really beats me why they did not nuke the Nazis. What do you think?

The Manhattan Project was originally established to counter Nazi Germany’s own atomic bomb program. If Germany had not surrendered on May 08, 1945 they would’ve been nuked as well. When the Soviets started pushing toward Berlin, the allies probably figured that it was the beginning of the end of the Third Reich.

Raiden

10-24-2005, 04:27 AM

p.s
i don’t want China to become a superpower even if their asians. all i can see “right now” is that they have the makings of a two-face bully. they might become the neo-imperialists. they’re cheap products are inundating the philippines to the expense of the filipino manufacturers.:smiley: and they’re smuggling or manufacturing shabu and pirated products to the philippines.:smiley: :smiley:

China is mighty close to being a superpower. I have much respect and admiration for China as I do have for Japan and S.Korea. China is far from perfect, and I believe they know that, so they are doing everything they can to improve their homeland. China is just communist on paper, because capitalism is being practiced nationwide. If only the heavyweights of Asia (Japan, China, S.Korea) could develop a closer relationship and cooperate more, together they have the potential to achieve things they only dream about. :slight_smile:

aiko

10-24-2005, 10:49 AM

:yesyes: [quote=gabby]Hey I like the quote myself you know? That is very inspirational but very hard to live and practice. Before you know it you are already taken for the ride. I love it really no fancy.

Actually, I have seen and read all what happened in Hiroshima and Nagazaki and it didn’t change my view about the mess caused by the Japanese themselves. Certainly I feel bad about it because I am human. But war is a war and the Japanese have asked for it. Have you read the Nanking massacre and stories about babies in the P.I. being skewed on their bayonets? Of women being gang raped? Of Filipinos beheaded for not cooperating with them? I heard all the hideous facts about them from the mouth of my grandma.

Everytime my wife tries to theorise about their defeat in that war, I snap her out of it and told her that they need to be stopped because they were evil and they really have no reason to march off across asia and murder people and kids. Through my wife I could sense that Japanese have thought about the wars as game and the opportunities to exercise their ingenuities and superiority. They seem not guilty about it. But I do really think that we should put it back behind us now. But the Chinese and Koreans really have vht alid reason to feel bitter towards Japan. It was them who experienced the brunt of Japanese cruelties and inhuman acts like slave labor and wanton killings of Koreans and Chinese.[/quotyoure absolute right gabby! i also heard from my mom about the babys skewed by bayonets…etc the japanese really deserved it (nukes)…but one thing i thank God , ihave a son ,now 16 yrs old , he told me about the ww2 written in their books…i ask him if he believe the story, he said partly, im happy coz nde sya magagaya sa ibang bata na hinde alam ang totoong nangyari during ww2…

Raiden

08-17-2006, 07:14 PM

Koizumi is one stubborn fella. Defiant to the end. At least he is being true to himself, and does what he believe is right.

Yeah, they were our enemy at one time, but I don’t see anything wrong with him honoring those who fought and died for his country. Even though they lost the war, that will never diminish the sacrifices made by their soldiers, they literally gave everything to their country.

These were the soldiers Koizumi was honoring. I understand why.

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xxxholic

08-18-2006, 05:05 AM

Koizumi promised to visit the Yasukuni Shrine during his campaign and every year i was looking forward to it.at last,a Prime Minister who have the guts…i thought.but he never did…until last Monday…and i’m glad at long last he decided to!i mean,for me,one country is like one home.whatever your neighbor wishes to do,as long as it doesn’t harm anyone,is none of your business.i hope Korea and China realize this.and that the visit is to pay homage for the Japanese soldiers who fought and died for their country…not to promote war!China and South Korea protested when Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi paid homage on Monday at the Yasukuni Shrine for the war dead.

Personally, I have no problems about the Prime Minister visiting the Yasukuni Shrine to honor their fallen soldiers who died for their country. He could be honoring some soldiers who was evil alongside with soldiers who gave all and made the ultimate sacrifice for their country, but that’s their business, not anybody else’s.

How about you as a Filipino? What are your thoughts and feelings about his visit?

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