taki
11-28-2005, 08:13 AM
Population of overstaying Filipinos in Japan has tremendously increased. This might be contributed to the strict policies implemented by the government of Japan though its Immigration Department. This season, we are very much aware that police visibility within and outside the metropolis are again at hand for possible apprehension of illegal stay among foreigners in Japan.
Are there any means that we can do to bring up to the Japanese government an amnesty program for overstaying foreigners? If that is not possible, maybe we can create an organization that will help the latter procure a valid visa so they can legally stay here.
thermometer
11-28-2005, 08:41 AM
Population of overstaying Filipinos in Japan has tremendously increased. This might be contributed to the strict policies implemented by the government of Japan though its Immigration Department. This season, we are very much aware that police visibility within and outside the metropolis are again at hand for possible apprehension of illegal stay among foreigners in Japan.
Are there any means that we can do to bring up to the Japanese government an amnesty program for overstaying foreigners? If that is not possible, maybe we can create an organization that will help the latter procure a valid visa so they can legally stay here.
I think goverment already gave a consideration sa mga over stay sa japan , binbaan na ata ang penalty sa mga tao na kusang susuko sa immigration (1 or 2 years Ban penalty).
But , If we are thinking na susuko ang wlang visa then acquire a visa without going back to the philippines medyo suntok ata sa buwan yon not unless married to local people here.
well of course I am agree mag ka visa lahat ng filipino dito sa japan but I know they alerady have procedure , and in order to gain japanese trust agaib we should follow their rules.
taki
11-28-2005, 09:05 AM
The issue here is not about non-adherence to Japanese laws and procedures… The situation already speaks for itself. The US government for instance back in the late 90s under Clintons administration has passed a law allowing overstaying foreigners to stay and live in the US legally.
Is there any possibility that the Japanese government can do the same thing? Are there any companies here in Japan that can release a working visa to qualified overstaying foreigners? Is there any resources of acquiring a marriage visa from permanent Filipino residents or a Japanese citizen whether it be for reality or just an agreement at a minimal cost?
RAIN
11-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Agree ako sa plan mo troy but hindi puwede sa japan iyan.Pag puwede mag vote a pilipino sa mga goverment offcial okey ang plan mo.Pero hindi tayo puwede mag vote.Iba ang goverment sa US and japan.Sa US kaya ginagawa nila ang ma ligal ang over stay filipino coz of politics million filipino sa US Politician always target nila Filipino org,china,org mexican org kailangan nila ang botante How many filipino sa japan ?
RAIN
neblus
11-28-2005, 02:52 PM
Already discussed particularly with the demographics na all signs pointing to continuous decline in population and as a matter of fact, September or October this year was the first time, population growth registered a “negative” number.
But the answer from “lawmakers” is - we will encourage the retirees to continue working!
So siguro next generation, they will realize na they (and us) are paying more taxes (consumption tax daw next year to 15%), more social security (another 100,000 yen increase daw on average per year) and higher bills for medical (to decrease daw share ng national insurance to 10 to 20 percent na lang).
betong
11-28-2005, 03:59 PM
I seriously think that hoping for the japanese government to grant residence visa’s to over-staying foreigners would be like waiting for the stars to fall from the sky (they eventually will but maybe not in our time).
The Japanese government is, among developed countries, one of the countries to accept the least number of refugees. How they contribute to the poor of the world is through money (the UN receives more money from Japan than from the US for example).
How many second generation Koreans do you know who live and think like your everyday Japanese are not treated (legally or officially, heck they still even have Korean passports and alternative Korean names).
All this to say that Japan is still pretty much closed to foreigners. Japanese isolationism is still pretty much present despite all the effort for kukusai stuff and all. Meiji era thinking is still the adage - bring in a foreign expert (like Nissan’s current president), learn everything from him, then pay him a huge amount of money then send him off home. This was the way of thinking that allowed the Japanese to become the huge economy that is now, from perfecting the art of sword making from the west (the samoura sword) to engineering and technology. So, my guess is, if you have nothing to offer to the Japanese, you have no place here.
This is not to say that they are not trying though. They accepted a useless cat like me…
chameleon
11-28-2005, 04:58 PM
Dear Troy,
Why dont you search over the Web such kind of related organizations overseas and give us a peek too? Maybe we can brainstorm some sort of compromise organization who can liaise with the Phil. Embassy and in extension the Japanese Govt.
Good luck,
Chameleon:O
betong
11-28-2005, 06:52 PM
BTW, this was a topic in an old discontinued thread, here (http://www.timog.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769&highlight=amnesty)
Ibig nya atang sabihin eh yong pagpapatawad at pagbibigay ng panhon para sa boluntaryong pag-uwi ng nga sayuhan na walang valid visa…Tapos na kabayan, noong isang taon, Natapos ata eto nong magsimula ang Disyembre 02, 2004 kung di ako nagkakamali - Nang maging bago na ang patakaran sa multa ukol sa overstaying.
jramar
11-28-2005, 07:58 PM
parang may natatandaan ako na UN official na nagpunta dito sa japan at ipinaglalaban ung mga karapatan ng mga over stay na foreigners at isinasama yata ung talks about the amnesty. siguro nabasa nyo rin ito sa newspaper dito.
puting tainga
11-29-2005, 05:00 PM
I have a rather optimistic view on this issue.
The answer is yes.
Some people say this change of policy or application of the law occurred after she(you know who she is) backed away from Iraq.
Friend of enemy is an enemy.
Potentially dangerous.
People from potentially dangerous country must be avoided.
Extension of visa is suddenly hard to obtain.
Kaya maraming bilog.
If the new president (who?) becomes friendly to USA, this means friendly to Japan, too.
Since it seems Japan has no choice but to accept a great number of young working force from abroad, things will change, I believe, in future, if only she goes away.
miles
11-29-2005, 05:36 PM
isa ako sa mga hundreds of foreigners surrenderd last year. sana seryoso ang japan goverment sa new policy nila na bibigyan lamang nila ng one year penalty those surrendered last year. I mean 1 yr. penalty lang di makakabalik sa japan. almost 1 year na rin ng sumurender ako. I wanna go back, do i have a chance? as far as i know wala pa akong nabalitaan na bilog na sumuko na nakabalik. well not unless kung nagpakasal sa hapones or nag change ng name. what do you think guys?
pointblank
11-29-2005, 08:23 PM
Are there any companies here in Japan that can release a working visa to qualified overstaying foreigners?
No, no company, no matter how prestigious or powerful, can sponsor a qualified OVERSTAYING foreigner for a working visa. If the foreigner is already in the overstaying status, illegal na siya, and it is illegal for the company to deal with him, no matter how qualified the person is.
Dapat ay mai-sponsor siya BAGO maging overstaying.
The issue here is not about non-adherence to Japanese laws and procedures… The situation already speaks for itself.
On the other hand, it IS ALL ABOUT adherence to Japanese laws and procedures.
I find the amnesty issue very uncomfortable, because there is often a mentality behind it that seems to think Japan owes the Filipinos a living because we are poor.
It is true that Japan needs more foreign immigrants to balance its population profile. But this is an internal problem that the Japanese must face and solve for themselves. It does not give us the right to demand that “kaya eto, kunin niyo kami”. Even assuming that Japan opens its doors, it has the right to choose what kind of foreigners it wants to take in.
Every country has sovereignity over its borders. Japan has admission procedures in place for those who want to come and live in Japan. We cannot just come here, break the law, then expect them to grant us amnesty because “there are so many of us” or “your society needs us to balance it”. Di nila problema na mahirap ang buhay sa Pinas kaya maraming gustong pumunta dito kahit na kapit sa patalim.
Let us think of this issue as a parallel situation: Meron kang kapitbahay na tamad, sugarol at waldas sa pera kaya palaging gutom ang kanyang mga anak. One day, pumunta ang isa niyang anak sa bahay mo para makinood ng TV program. Pero nang natapos na ang programa, ayaw umuwi! Nakikain na nang hapunan, gusto pang makitulog sa inyo, at gusto pa yung kama ng anak mo. Then the next day, binantaan ka: pag di mo raw siya inampon, isusumbong ka raw sa pulis. At pag di mo siya payagin na dalhin yung isa niya pang kapatid, ididemanda ka dahil inaapi mo ang kaligayan niya. Sa tingin mo ba ay matutuwa ka? Well, yan ang nangyayari dito sa amnesty na ito.
Is there any resources of acquiring a marriage visa from permanent Filipino residents or a Japanese citizen whether it be for reality or just an agreement at a minimal cost?
Ehem… do you realize what you are suggesting? Marriage for “just an agreement at a minimal cost” is EXACTLY the kind of illegal activity that will get you deported whether in Japan, the US or Europe.
Please, may I beg Filipinos in Japan to follow the spirit of the law. Yung mga pasikot-sikot para makalusot sa butas ng batas - this are the actions done in bad faith that will not help improve our reputation here. Kaya nga mahigpit sa Pinoy in the first place, kilala tayo bilang mahilig sa palusot.
Dkid
11-29-2005, 09:42 PM
isa ako sa mga hundreds of foreigners surrenderd last year. sana seryoso ang japan goverment sa new policy nila na bibigyan lamang nila ng one year penalty those surrendered last year. I mean 1 yr. penalty lang di makakabalik sa japan. almost 1 year na rin ng sumurender ako. I wanna go back, do i have a chance? as far as i know wala pa akong nabalitaan na bilog na sumuko na nakabalik. well not unless kung nagpakasal sa hapones or nag change ng name. what do you think guys?
Japanese government is always serious in any of their policy, be it new or old. Meron po kayong chance na makabalik dito sa japan after a year na sumurender ka, if you qualify all of their requirements in whatever visa you wish to apply.
Sumurender din po ako noong year 2000, sinubukan kung mag-apply ng visa after 8 months, denied po. After exactly a year since I’ve surrendered, I reapplied again for a visa and I was granted. Business visa po ang inapplyan ko bilang representative ng company namin sa PI, to attend a conference at our head office here in Japan. Since then, I did’nt have a hard time getting a visa whenever our head office needed my presence here.
I use the same name, since I never have any other name, since we cannot just change our legal name whenever we want without court approval.
kikx_miles
11-30-2005, 09:26 AM
I have a rather optimistic view on this issue.
The answer is yes.
Some people say this change of policy or application of the law occurred after she(you know who she is) backed away from Iraq.
Friend of enemy is an enemy.
Potentially dangerous.
People from potentially dangerous country must be avoided.
Extension of visa is suddenly hard to obtain.
Kaya maraming bilog.
If the new president (who?) becomes friendly to USA, this means friendly to Japan, too.
Since it seems Japan has no choice but to accept a great number of young working force from abroad, things will change, I believe, in future, if only she goes away.
marami nga ang nagsasabi na kaya mas naghigpit daw ang goverment ng japan dahil nga sa nangyari na yun…kasi kung iisipin nga naman natin matagal na talagang maraming bilog dito sa japan pero hindi naman sila ganun kahigpit!ngaun na nga lang yan kasi nga parang may nag papasunod lang sa bansang hapon.kaya sa tingin ko rin medyo madadalian tayo kung wala na sya.
taki
11-30-2005, 10:42 AM
I am fully satsified with your answers POINTBLANK. I truly appreciate the information and opinions you have shared. We are in a foreign land and we are all subject to abide the rules and laws provided by the government.
But I would like to appeal on the issue which covers the reputation of the Filipinos being well known for manipulating the procedures of the law in their own hand (as per se in bad faith) just to cover themselves up from breaking any laws. This does not only apply to us Filipinos but to other nationalities as well. Again, why are people like you who i suppose has never disobeyed any law put a blame to your fellow Filipinos on a certain mistake? Why are we so kindhearted to claim such reputation that not only us Filipinos has the capacity to make such move? Please don`t pinpoint any illegal act to Filipinos.
Now, if given the situation, you have a successful career in the Philippines. But you want something more. So you came to Japan hoping for a greener pasture. But the biggest mistake youve ever done is that you have overstayed. You have no choice and theres no more turning back. But you dont want any implications of bad records under your name. dont you think you won`t be able to consider such move to redeem yourself? In that case, what do you think would you do? If you are not suppose to be emotionally attached to anyone here, would you resort to a “marriage agreement” at a minimal cost?
miles
11-30-2005, 04:30 PM
salamat sa impormasyon Dkid now I know, hope someday makabalik ako.:):)
katty0531
11-30-2005, 06:10 PM
Hello,
Grabe tong thread na ito, i mean sugoi yong sinabi ni pointblank, wala na akong masasabi, sana humaba pa itong thread na ito, happy reading to me!
taki
12-01-2005, 08:06 AM
Now, if given the situation, you have a successful career in the Philippines. But you want something more. So you came to Japan hoping for a greener pasture. But the biggest mistake youve ever done is that you have overstayed. You have no choice and theres no more turning back. But you dont want any implications of bad records under your name. dont you think you won`t be able to consider such move to redeem yourself? In that case, what do you think would you do? If you are not suppose to be emotionally attached to anyone here, would you resort to a “marriage agreement” at a minimal cost?
----> again POINTBLANK or anyone who would like to share their honest and serious opinion, given the above-mentioned scenario, what possible options would you consider?
pointblank
01-11-2006, 08:53 PM
Now, if given the situation, you have a successful career in the Philippines. But you want something more. So you came to Japan hoping for a greener pasture. But the biggest mistake youve ever done is that you have overstayed. You have no choice and theres no more turning back. But you dont want any implications of bad records under your name. dont you think you won`t be able to consider such move to redeem yourself? In that case, what do you think would you do? If you are not suppose to be emotionally attached to anyone here, would you resort to a “marriage agreement” at a minimal cost?
----> again POINTBLANK or anyone who would like to share their honest and serious opinion, given the above-mentioned scenario, what possible options would you consider?
Hello, taki. Sorry for replying just now since I’ve been away from Timog for over a month.
The problem in the situation above is that it is difficult to completely correct a mistake without some kind of penalty once the mistake has been committed. Assuming that you can find a convenient “marriage agreement”, will the Japanese government not question your overstaying status when you go to the city hall and apply for a marriage license? (I have no experience in this matter, so I do not know what actually happens, but common sense tells me that you need to get married BEFORE you become an overstay. Othewrwise, illegal na ang presence mo sa Japan.)
My feeling is that you cannot correct a mistake by committing another mistake. It is a leap of faith (and trust in Japanese government policy) to surrender and return to Manila. But as Dkid has shared with us in his encouraging story, there is a good chance to return to Japan legally.
Mas masarap siguro na mamuhay ka na malaya at walang takot, kaysa kinakabahan ka araw-araw kung kelan ka mamalasin at nahuli ng pulis sa kalye.
Hope this helps.
taki
01-12-2006, 07:48 AM
Hello, taki. Sorry for replying just now since I’ve been away from Timog for over a month.
The problem in the situation above is that it is difficult to completely correct a mistake without some kind of penalty once the mistake has been committed. Assuming that you can find a convenient “marriage agreement”, will the Japanese government not question your overstaying status when you go to the city hall and apply for a marriage license? (I have no experience in this matter, so I do not know what actually happens, but common sense tells me that you need to get married BEFORE you become an overstay. Othewrwise, illegal na ang presence mo sa Japan.)
My feeling is that you cannot correct a mistake by committing another mistake. It is a leap of faith (and trust in Japanese government policy) to surrender and return to Manila. But as Dkid has shared with us in his encouraging story, there is a good chance to return to Japan legally.
Mas masarap siguro na mamuhay ka na malaya at walang takot, kaysa kinakabahan ka araw-araw kung kelan ka mamalasin at nahuli ng pulis sa kalye.
Hope this helps.
Well, for the record, there are several cases in Japan who have ventured into this procedure. I have met personally acquaintances who have been overstaying in this country for more than 5 years and has successfully endeavored this so-called marriage agreement. There is a Filipino couple, actually a friend of mine, who have been living together for a year now with a healthy child. They are not legally married but are both married (with a monetary agreement) to a Japanese citizen. As for the Filipina, it took her 6 months to wait before she got the marriage visa. and for the 6 months period of waiting, she was once apprehended by the police. standard operating procedure was done, but her Japanese husband (although there marriage visa was not yet approved at that time) just came into rescue and showed them the documents under processing period. then they just let her go without any penalty. i`ve learned stories from co-Filipinos in the same predicament saying that most police authorities are very considerate with their situation… maybe not as considerate as you, being the righteous guy… as I may think.
pointblank
01-12-2006, 03:16 PM
i`ve learned stories from co-Filipinos in the same predicament saying that most police authorities are very considerate with their situation…
Hello, Taki.
Actually, the stories you heard may be right: the Japanese police can be considerate (not always, but they often are). I cannot recall which thread in Timog, but there was a girl who sent a post saying that the police realize that Pinoy TNTs are basically economic refugees who just want to make an honest living, unlike some of the other nationalities with hidden agendas like organized crime.
So, when the catch a Pinoy overstay, they are much more gentle because they realize our predicament: I am sure many of the police may even personally feel that they just want to let the Pinoy TNT go free, but they cannot do so because of the rules…
It is the same with the Japanese courts: the sentences given by the judges tend to give more weight to humanitarian considerations and to the remorse of the person being tried.
That being said, let us be thankful and not abuse the kindness of our hosts… (For all the complaints we have about Japanese discrimination, bear in mind that unless you have super connections, you will not even get half a decent trial back home. Dito, may libreng interpreter ka pa!)
Returning to the issue of amnesty, mahirap yan. While the Japanese may INDIVIDUALLY feel that they want to be considerate, as a NATION, they cannot easily do so because it will set all kinds of legal precedents and problems. As Pinoys, we need to be considerate of the fact that their hands are tied on this.
By the way, did you change your name? I noticed that your original post on this thread was under “troy387”.
taki
01-13-2006, 06:34 AM
you certainly have a point. which obviously is contradictory to your username. hehehe! yes, i did changed my username for personal reasons. i am just optimistic that someday somehow, the Japanese government can open its mind and pave way for an Amnesty Program to overstaying foreigners in this country. I know how difficult it is to be in that situation and how they manage the consequences. Well, I`ve (I@ve) heard about an issue concerning overstaying foreigners for 20 years will be granted an amnesty. I hope this is true.
Tonyang
01-14-2006, 02:47 PM
Ok itong discussion na ito. Mga opinyon ko lang, Kapatid…
Marami na ring nagtanong sa akin na mga kababayan natin dito na ganito ang sitwasyon.
First point rito kung bakit natin pinag-uusapan ay para gawin ang dapat o mali? Kung kahit mali ay gagawin para lang maging legal, I think end of discussion na kasi mahirap na magbigay tayo ng maling advice at magkaroon ng agreement sa isang bagay na labag sa batas. Gusto nating itama ang mali sa pamamagitan ng mali rin… risky ito.
Secong point ko rito… pinag-uusapan natin ang isang bagay na walang gumagawa ng malalaking hakbang kahit ang gobyerno natin ay hindi papatulang pag-aralan dahil kulang tayo sa resources at kung mayroon man, kailangan ng pondo nito.
Third point ko rito… ang Italy nagkaroon ng amnesty program at marahil ang mga plano, transition stage nito ang puwedeng maging modelo sa pag-aaral na puwedeng gawin.
Fourth point ay bakit iyung mga umuwi na… di na nila binalikan iyung issue ng amnesty na kung tutuusin ay puwede nilang tulungan ngayon?
fisher
01-14-2006, 03:15 PM
I am fully satsified with your answers POINTBLANK. I truly appreciate the information and opinions you have shared. We are in a foreign land and we are all subject to abide the rules and laws provided by the government.
But I would like to appeal on the issue which covers the reputation of the Filipinos being well known for manipulating the procedures of the law in their own hand (as per se in bad faith) just to cover themselves up from breaking any laws. This does not only apply to us Filipinos but to other nationalities as well. Again, why are people like you who i suppose has never disobeyed any law put a blame to your fellow Filipinos on a certain mistake? Why are we so kindhearted to claim such reputation that not only us Filipinos has the capacity to make such move? Please don`t pinpoint any illegal act to Filipinos.
Now, if given the situation, you have a successful career in the Philippines. But you want something more. So you came to Japan hoping for a greener pasture. But the biggest mistake youve ever done is that you have overstayed. You have no choice and theres no more turning back. But you dont want any implications of bad records under your name. dont you think you won`t be able to consider such move to redeem yourself? In that case, what do you think would you do? If you are not suppose to be emotionally attached to anyone here, would you resort to a “marriage agreement” at a minimal cost?
Ikaw naman taki nagkamali ka na nga tapos gagawa ka pa ng isa pang kamalian?Just thinking doing something like this I will not consider you a trustful person.Kahit na gaano ka pa ka-succesfull sa Pilipinas you are not that one here and it doesn’t matter to the Japanese government.Ang illegal ay illegal period!
Now, to hope na sana magbigay ng consideration ang Japanese government sa mga illegal ay parang malabo pa sa ngayon iyan.Ang alam ko kapag nahuli ka or sumuko ka you cannot enter Japan for atleast 1 year nga yata.Pero malabo pa rin iyan dahil kung ako ang nasa position ng Japanese government I will not let anyone to enter my gates again if he/she did something wrong before.Period at period pa rin.Peace tayo pare ko:D .
taki
01-15-2006, 08:55 AM
Ikaw naman taki nagkamali ka na nga tapos gagawa ka pa ng isa pang kamalian?Just thinking doing something like this I will not consider you a trustful person.Kahit na gaano ka pa ka-succesfull sa Pilipinas you are not that one here and it doesn’t matter to the Japanese government.Ang illegal ay illegal period!
Now, to hope na sana magbigay ng consideration ang Japanese government sa mga illegal ay parang malabo pa sa ngayon iyan.Ang alam ko kapag nahuli ka or sumuko ka you cannot enter Japan for atleast 1 year nga yata.Pero malabo pa rin iyan dahil kung ako ang nasa position ng Japanese government I will not let anyone to enter my gates again if he/she did something wrong before.Period at period pa rin.Peace tayo pare ko:D .
sad to hear that fisher… i am so disappointed how you never ever consider the huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandaparents back in the 1940s... how they came across deep anguish over the abuses and ruthlessness of many Japanese soldiers during the world war 2. illegal, yes, but these act doesnt or isnt enough at all to pay what they have gone through with their past lives... different as it may seem, but please... at least sympathize with our fellow blood who has enormously suffered at present just to survive with the difficult times our country has experienced right now. you may be lucky enough to be one among those who has followed the rules and do things legally, but how about those who are not fortunate enough to be like you? why did you came here and work or migrate in the first place? it is basically the same thing as those who came here illegally. they got definitely no choice. so, please, dont be too selfish by acquiring such previleges with the same purpose and the only difference is that you are luckier than they are… history repeats itself. in a different perspective maybe… now i am begging you to please do not take the right of our co-Filipinos to hope for a better life… legally or illegally… because that is absolutely the realities of life…
Tonyang
01-15-2006, 09:38 AM
Taki, excuse me Bro o Sis.
Ang sitwasyon natin sa bansang Hapon ay nakikisuyo lamang tayo dahil nakikitira lamang tayo rito. Samakatwid, may mga batas sila rito na dapat nating sundin. Pero may punto ang iyong mensahe tungkol sa mga karapatan pero di tayo ang gumagawa ng batas… tagasunod lamang tayo. Pero may pagkakataon na mabigyan ng pagkakataon ang isang “amnesty” pero sa definition ng mga Hapon na “deserving” at di natin sila masisisi kung anong gusto nilang qualifications na “deserving”. May mga valid man tayong basehan pero huwag tayong one-sided palagi. Iyun bang puro sa atin o sa amin lamang dahil ang isyu ng “amnesty” ay napakalaking transition sa buhay ng mga Hapon.
Kung gugustuhin natin ng transition na ito… una sa lahat, image-building muli ito. Kasi across the board iyan… walang pipiliin kung lahat ay illegal magiging legal halimbawa. Now, deserving ba ang mga Pinoy given ang image natin sa Japan? Eto na iyung puno’t dulo. Oo may mga exception pero… mas nakararami ang nagdulot ng masamang image sa ating lahi. Kung kaya nating mabura ito, mas mainam pero sa katotohahan, paano natin maipoproseso ang pag-iisip ng mga kababayan natin na gumawa ng kahit na ano basta lang manatili sa Japan… kahit peke o magkano, papatulan, basta lang manatili sa Japan. Dito pa lang sa anggulong ito, kahit na inapi tayo sa history ng Pinas ng mga Hapon noon, mabubura na ang kaapihang iyon dahil naabuso na ng maraming kababayan natin ang mga karapatang sana ay magagamit natin ng mabuti ngayong kailangan na natin. Halimbawa sa isyu ng amnesty.
Pero di pa huli ang lahat… subukan nating ayusin ang image natin. Call ito para sa lahat… walang magtatagong Pinoy kasi kahit na di aminin na may nagawang kasalanan ngayon, iyung nasa Itaas, sa Kanya na lang matakot. Kung nakaligtas ngayon at di nahuli iyung pagpeke o panloloko, may sagot kundi bukas o sa darating kaya sana iwasan na natin mula ngayon.
I think sa usaping ito di lang si Taki ang dapat lumantad… dapat lahat ng mga concerned. Di kaya ng isang Pinoy ang ganitong isyu. Muli sa usaping ito, sana iyung mga nakauwi na sa Pinas, makatulong pa rin sa isyu ng amnesty sa Japan kasi ang mga nandito, di naman magiging aktibo ng todo. Iyun lang naman kung concern tayo sa bagay na ito para sa future nating lahat sa Japan.
Patuloy lang tayo sa pagkampanya para sa isang Filipino school sa Japan:
http://www.tpmovers.org/filschool_japan.htm
pointblank
01-15-2006, 02:05 PM
sad to hear that fisher… i am so disappointed how you never ever consider the huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandaparents back in the 1940s... how they came across deep anguish over the abuses and ruthlessness of many Japanese soldiers during the world war 2. illegal, yes, but these act doesnt or isn`t enough at all to pay what they have gone through with their past lives… different as it may seem, but please… at least sympathize with our fellow blood who has enormously suffered at present just to survive with the difficult times our country has experienced right now.
Hello, taki.
Please allow me to PEACEFULLY disagree with your opinion.
Let us not confuse the issue of illegal staying with WW2. Separate issues po ito. Just because the Japanese made the unfortunate historical mistake of savagely attacking the Philippines in WW2 does not mean that they will forever owe us a living.
We continue to be poor not because of the Japanese occupation of the Philippines, but INSPITE of the payment of war reparations by the Japanese.
Totoo, malaki ang damage na ginawa ng Japan sa atin in WW2, pero ang mga neighbors natin, lahat nakaahon na! Even Vietnam, which was devasted more recently by the Vietnam War, has moved ahead of us. Also please note, that the Philippines was one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) receipients of Japanese war reparations. (On the other hand, the US, who Pinoys looooove so much, on the contrary, is still holding back a lot of the money they should be paying Philippine war veterans.) Ang laki ng pera na ibinigay ng mga Hapon, and it is not their fault if our goverment has wasted it all away. (The corruption of reparations money started even before Marcos - as early as the Garcia & Macapagal administrations. You can easily check reports of reparations equipment rotting away in warehouses, not distributed to government offices where they could be used, but waiting for diversion into the black market.) Even after the reparations program was over, the Japanese government extended signficant aid packages to the Philippines - pero meron bang nangyari?
It is not their fault if we choose to screw up our lives. Huwag na natin buhayin ang wartime dahil mas lalo lang tayong nagmumukhang nanlilimos. If we keep on trying to squeeze mileage out of 4 years of Japanese occupation, then maybe we should go the the Americans (50 years) and Spaniards (380 years) first? The detrimental effects of Spanish and American colonization are much much stronger than the destruction of Japan’s 4 years.
(If we keep on reviving the issue of Japan’s wartime occupation, then what will you tell our Moslem brothers in Mindanao regarding the damage afflicted on them by our central government, which, by the way is still ongoing?)
now i am begging you to please do not take the right of our co-Filipinos to hope for a better life… legally or illegally… because that is absolutely the realities of life…
As I have mentioned in my first post in this thread, this is one of the reasons the amnesty issue is disturbing to me: it creates an attitude of privileged mendicancy - that the world owes us a living because we are poor.
As Tonyang so aptly said: we are guests in this country and they have laws that we must follow. We understand the predicament of Filipinos, but we do not make the laws.
You are looking at the issue only from one side. Yes, Filipinos (and any human being for that matter) have the right to hope for a better life. Ika nga ni Roosevelt (yata), basic right yung freedom from want. However, the Japanese also have the right to impose their laws in their own country - and we should follow. Just because we want a better life does not mean we have the right to come to Japan and stay illegally. Ignoring laws because it suits our purposes will result in anarchy - which is very close to what we have in the Philippines because everyone is doing his own thing. If Pinoys were more law abiding (ranging from not jaywalking & littering to paying taxes properly, to working honestly and voting properly), then maybe we would still be number 2 in Asia and not have to come to Japan and beg them to let us stay.
This is why many members of the Timog Forum insist on staying legal and following laws. It is not because we are “lucky” or fortunate or self-righteous, but that condoning illegal overstaying contributes to an overall deterioration of morality - which is the thing our country really needs most right now.
Just so I do not get misinterpreted as a “burgis” snob: alam ko ang hirap ng mga tao. Nanggaling ako sa hirap. Lumaki ako ng tumutulo ang bubong namin tuwing umuulan, at basa yung mga pader ng bahay dahil wala kaming pambayad ng palitada (cement mortar to seal the wall). But while our better-off neighbors were spending their money on frivolous clothes and hobbies, we were eating lugaw so my parents could save the money from holding 3 jobs each to send me to a good school. How many “poor” Filipinos back home are actually toiling that hard? I’ve heard of a bilog here bragging that her daughter studies at the swanky Miriam High School and has to be brought to school in a chauffered car because “hindi siya marunong mag-jeep”. Ang sosi yata, mereseng bilog ang nanay? Anong klaseng perverted values yan???
Raiden
01-15-2006, 08:16 PM
I agree with everything you’ve said, Madam Pointblank.
I believe it would be better for Filipinos to consider honorable solutions on how to pull our country out of the quagmire that it has the misfortune to be entrenched in, rather than making up excuses and trying to justify any misdeeds in the name of obtaining a better life.
Wasn’t it the selfishness and the dishonesty of some of the powerful and influential Filipinos that contributed to our beloved country’s fall from grace?
taki
01-16-2006, 12:35 PM
i, for one, advocates for the strict adherence of the the laws and policies of a government in any country. being a foreign national living in this country, it is rightful and just to abide by the rules implemented therein. but in any circumstance, there are several misstep existing everywhere in this world. illegal as it may seem in the eyes of many people and of the government, we also have to take into consideration the reasons behind the move of one illegally staying in a country. say in the Philippines, there are many foreign nationals who overstayed for the reason of drug traficking, escape from crime committed in their country, and so on and so forth… is it as deep as a crime committed for anyone overstaying in a country working double time for the welfare of his own family rather than living in his own country and commit serious crime such as kidnapping and the likes for the welfare of his own family? that even a congressman or senator who has a post in the government would do such thing just to survive the difficulties of time??? why in the first place many of our co-Filipinos like us people who have gambled our lives living and working abroad? isn`t it because of the hardships that we have experienced back in our own country???
you people, who are very much fortunate to have an opportunity of working and living here legally, could just easily say, we should abide by the rules of the government in Japan, without even thinking of those people who has encountered intricacies in coming here just to sacrifice themselves and work and stay illegally for the reason that they have no connections or whatsoever to make them live here legally? and that we blame them for resorting to such illegal act and very much worried about damaging our reputation as Filipinos… i am sorry but i cant prevent myself from being emotional but i would say "to hell with that reputation! we are fighting here for the lives of our families who are suffering back in our country." we are not teaching them to become lazy... the fact is, they have no choice and no hope if they only depend in our country for a better life... and if you do, then go back home and live there... why stay here? theres no place like home, right?
what i am saying here is that, if you stay here legally, then good for you. for people who stay here illegally, please dont make them feel they are unwelcome here.... that they committed a big crime and that they dont deserve an amnesty… they also have the right to live a good life equally the same as the privileged people like you. “kanya kanyang diskarte lang yan.” they are aware of the consequences and i am pretty sure they have prepared themselves for that.
if you think i am being one sided here, how about you? are you telling the thousands of overstaying Filipinos to give themselves in to the government and go back to the Philippines? for what? to add more problems to the economy of our country? do you think it is that easy to come back here if you already have a record of overstaying? now, tell me…
pointblank
01-16-2006, 02:34 PM
for people who stay here illegally, please don`t make them feel they are unwelcome here… that they committed a big crime and that they don’t deserve an amnesty… they also have the right to live a good life equally the same as the privileged people like you. “kanya kanyang diskarte lang yan.” they are aware of the consequences and i am pretty sure they have prepared themselves for that.
Hi, taki.
Just one clarification: like I’ve already said before, I am not condemning overstaying Filipinos, and have no intention of making them feel unwelcome. Nandiyan na yan, at wala na tayong magagawa.
What I am saying is: let us NOT ENCOURAGE more Filipinos to choose the overstaying option. And one way to do this is to point out the risks of overstaying or working without a proper visa.
I sometimes come across posts in Timog Forum that gives suggestions on how to make “lusot” against immigration and labor rules. Hindi tama ito, and as TF members, hindi natin sana dapat kunukunsinti ang paglabag ng batas by teaching newcomers how to circumvent the law. Alam naman natin na hindi pwede magtrabaho on a tourist visa, pagkatapos sasabihan natin na “mag-baito ka dito, mag-English teacher ka diyan, mag-waiter ka doon”. Kahit na gipit yung tao, mali ang payong yun dahil gagawin mo siyang ilegal.
As for the amnesty, I am not saying that they don’t deserve it. What I am saying is, it will be very difficult and they will most likely not get it. The best advice is an honest one. Let’s be honest and not give desperate people false hope. Panloloko yan ng mga politicians para makakuha ng boto - they will come here and “promise” to push the Japanese government for amnesty if you vote for them. The Japanese government is extremely stingy in even giving visas to bona fide Indochinese refugees under the UN relocation program - what are the chances they will consider across-the-board amnesty?
As for people being aware of the consequences of their actions & being prepared for it … I really don’t think so. Ang dami dami daaaaaaaaami kong alam na kaso ng mga overstay who, after many years here, still have not saved any money (either in Japan or in the Philippines) for the day that they are caught and sent home. Many overstays who are caught end up depending on NGOs and Filipino community contributions to even buy their tickets to go back home. Yan ba ang “have prepared themselves”?
if you think i am being one sided here, how about you? are you telling the thousands of overstaying Filipinos to give themselves in to the government and go back to the Philippines? for what? to add more problems to the economy of our country? do you think it is that easy to come back here if you already have a record of overstaying? now, tell me…
Again, my point is: let us not encourage new overstaying. For the people already here, nandiyan na yan. Not once in any of my posts did I directly advice that overstaying Filipinos should turn themselves in. I have no right to do so, since I obviously cannot guarantee their future. This is a big decision that should be made by each individual.
we are fighting here for the lives of our families who are suffering back in our country." we are not teaching them to become lazy… the fact is, they have no choice and no hope if they only depend in our country for a better life…
On the contrary, the OFW phenomenon is encouraging Pinoys back home TO BE LAZY.
Several surveys recently conducted by various NGOs, UN agencies, the ADB and even the Philippine government reveal the detrimental social & economic effects of overseas migrant workers.
In their findings, as much as 80% of households in some communities with a family member working abroad rely SOLELY on the income of that OFW for their living expenses. This includes families who have employable male members: able-bodied fathers, husbands, brothers or sons who choose to make tambay at home instead of working, depending instead on the remittance of the female OFW. One of the studies quotes a husband, “Bakit ko pa kailangan magtrabaho, e malaki naman yung pinapadala ng asawa ko…” Kung hindi LAZY ang tawag diyan, ano?
In other words, the remittances of OFWs are not supplemental income (as they should ideally have been), but substitute employment. The more money sent in by OFWs, the lower the level of productive employment inside the Philippines becomes.
One woman OFW I know who has been here for almost 2 decades complains that she still cannot go home because she still has “obligations”. After slaving off for so many years to send her children to school (including a son who graduated from law school, at that), she now has to support her GRANDchildren, including the child of her lawyer son. Ano ba yan?
I’ve also mentioned the case of the overstay whose daughter goes to Miriam in a chauffered car dahil di daw siya marunong mag-public transpo. Susmaryosep, social climber pa ang dakilang dawter!
Totoo, maraming pamilya ng OFW ang naghihirap. Pero marami din ang spoiled at plain tamad! I cannot help but sometimes feel that this “poverty” story is overused. In the first place, the really really poor people do not have the means to even come to Japan. At the very least, mga lower middle class na yan. Alam naman natin na ang Pinoy, mahilig sa mga pahingi-ng-luha, martir-na-api, Nora Aunor type stories…
chameleon
01-16-2006, 04:16 PM
Wow,pointblank…Cont rary to your name nga…andami mo palang points to make…
I admire your patience in sharing so much info but I think the thread was started on how we can help the OFWs…Based on the many varied experiences you heard,maybe you can share a way out for our suffering OFWs? Like,what type of amnesty may be possible for them,if at all…Or how they can get out of the holes that they have dug themselves in…I am sure ,giving hafl the chance,they would rather stay legally rather than illegally in Japan…
I hope if some Embassy people can read this thread that they can at least drop some hints or
start a Forum on OFWs in Japan…where Filipinos can brainstorm…maybe they can start a thread in the Embassy website? This is not condoning overstaying but rather finding a common ground that all of us can start from…in order to resolve this very painful situation…for all of us Filipinos…regardles s of status…
Mabuhay!
Cheers,
Chameleon:confused:
v_wrangler
01-16-2006, 04:41 PM
Wow ang dami ng posts.
The first step in my opinion is to never- ever let your permits expire.
Sa akin lang pong pansariling opinyon, an amnesty will never solve the problem at hand. Kung meron man niyan, it will always be a subject for abuse. I know Ka Tonyang can share her expertise in this regard (livelihood) but one area where people (those who are in power, yung paalis pa lang ng Pilipinas and those who have expired their permits) should also look into - is Reintegration. Discussing ways to help those who will voluntarily go back or stay, is to find a new source of livelihood/employment in the Philippines. And I also think its a viable choice. Unless of course ikaw ay pinepersecute sa Pilipinas…
Dkid
01-16-2006, 09:45 PM
I like the discussion here, it is so healthy and maybe helpful to others who may be pros or cons, it may save or ruin some wannabes.
Except for a few, the discussants merely focused on the issues.
sad to hear that fisher… i am so disappointed how you never ever consider the huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandaparents back in the 1940s... how they came across deep anguish over the abuses and ruthlessness of many Japanese soldiers during the world war 2. illegal, yes, but these act doesnt or isn`t enough at all to pay what they have gone through with their past lives… different as it may seem, but please… at least sympathize with our fellow blood who has enormously suffered at present just to survive with the difficult times our country has experienced right now. -)
Much as I’ve agreed with your views, with due respect to this opinion, I think it is out of bounce, you may make another thread on this issue. This issue is moot and academic. The Japanese already paid their dues after the sad debacle, and was in fact acknowledged by our then leaders. Even if we claim that it was done with deceit, it is water under the bridge.
It won’t be an easy task to move on with unnecessary luggage on your back. For as long as history is not altered, and the Japanese constitution categorically denounces war, we might as forgive and for some may not forget.
Back to the issue of overstays. Yes indeed it is against the law, “dura lex sed lex”, it is the law and let us not condone this. However, democracy has its own price to pay, people will break this law especially when the rule of the stomach sits in. How pity are these people, risking their lives, enduring years of Christmases and new years away from their loved ones, missing kids graduations, kids growing up sans their most beloved, because of the wanting to partake
a parcel of the most coveted greener pasture whom everyone wished. Yes indeed, it is not in any form the responsibility of a host country. Compassion is the key. Is it that heavy? Why the so called civil societies drastically lower the axe to roll the unfortunate heads? It isn’t indolence that motivated them to do such, it is indeed the real “ultimate sacrifice” for a noble cause. Ironically, our very own countrymen despised these people, claiming they were robbed of oppurtunities of respect and lost reputation from the host because of these undesirables? Let us put aside modesty, or shall I say hypocracy? Is it the real reason why a country as homogenous as Japan has low regard to a race because some of them overstayed? Or is it time not to call wolf when it is a dog? Some discussants even went beyond the limits, branding those overstayers as walang disciplina, mayabang, at walang pinag-aralan! This line of reasoning can only be acceptable in a Philo 101 subject, which says: Monkey eat bananas, Pedro eat bananas, therefore Pedro is a monkey. Calling these people as such is akin to branding them as undesirables. If you sped off your car at 86kph at a road of 80 kph limit,
am I free to call you quoting your own words?We donot know their reasons, let us not make negative assumptions, because if we do so, the assumption is congruent to the author itself.
If an idea of amnesty sprouts, it is ironic that our very own countrymen says the contrary, as if they are against it. Some people says “suntok sa buwan”, is it really? I assumed it to be a hyperbole. What if the discussant really mean it? I beg to disagree, it may happen, though probably in the generation of Mr. Marty Mcfly and Dr. Emmet Brown.
Tonyang
01-16-2006, 09:51 PM
DKid, thanks for the balance of thoughts. Let’s discuss solutions and SOLUTIONS from now.
Dkid
01-16-2006, 09:59 PM
DKid, thanks for the balance of thoughts. Let’s discuss solutions and SOLUTIONS from now.
Yes, that I liked most - solutions.
I guess there are a plenty of technocrats in this forum. I hope to see more, we may disagree in order to agree.
Who knows, it may reach a milestone.
Thanks also.
Tonyang
01-16-2006, 10:23 PM
Let’s hear from the technocrats now, Dkid and folks. Pls provide solutions (short-term, mid-term and long-term as well as close to possible and very possible ones) to this issue now. Take it away.
v_wrangler
01-16-2006, 10:38 PM
Ayon ke Ka Tonyang medyo maganda ata ang dating ng sinabi ni Dkid - Sayang pero di ko naintindihan. Gets ko yang tungkol sa past histories at ang pagpasok ng idea na iyan in relation to overtsaying. I agree with the Kid on this one. Pero yong iba medyo di ko napik-ap lalo na pag nagmamadali. Pasensiya na, pwede ba pakisimplihan mo ng konti kabayan at interesado ako sa topic na ito.
Dkid
01-16-2006, 11:04 PM
Ayon ke Ka Tonyang medyo maganda ata ang dating ng sinabi ni Dkid - Sayang pero di ko naintindihan. Gets ko yang tungkol sa past histories at ang pagpasok ng idea na iyan in relation to overtsaying. I agree with the Kid on this one. Pero yong iba medyo di ko napik-ap lalo na pag nagmamadali. Pasensiya na, pwede ba pakisimplihan mo ng konti kabayan at interesado ako sa topic na ito.
Sympathy lang kabayan.
Para lang pangpaangat ng kalooban nila. Wala naman talaga silang choice. iwasan lang nating magdagdag ng insulto sa kanilang sugat, dahil kapwa natin sila na marangal ang hangarin. Hindi naman nila ginusto to. Situational kung baga.
Di natin alam, baka may mga bureaucrats na nag momonitor ng forum na to, naghahanap ng mga ideas. Kung makikita nilang, kabayan natin mismo ay walang compassion sa kapwa nila, who knows diba? Lalo na kung makikita nila na puro nalang negative ang mga comments.
Ayaw nga nating supportahan ang “pagbibilog”, pero kung nakalusot (demokrasya kasi) at nandito na, kahit katiting na sympathy lang.
Yung sinabi mong re-integration program, maganda yun. Hindi na basta basta nalang natin silang iencourage na papauwiin na wala namang kasamang programa. Susuntok nalang ako sa buwan baka sakaling may pagbabago ng immigration policy dito.
I’ll go for ka tonyang’s idea. lets discuss solutions instead, malay natin kung saan makakarating. Puro kurokuro lang naman to, lam kung marami ditong mga magagaling na medyo hesitant pa mag share. Si chamelon, meron yan, hintayin lang natin ng konti baka lalabas din yung mga ideas. Ikaw din, inumpisahan mo na. Paki expound naman ng konti yung idea mo, may program na yan sa atin, baka madagdagan natin.
fisher
01-16-2006, 11:06 PM
sad to hear that fisher… i am so disappointed how you never ever consider the huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandaparents back in the 1940s... how they came across deep anguish over the abuses and ruthlessness of many Japanese soldiers during the world war 2. illegal, yes, but these act doesnt or isnt enough at all to pay what they have gone through with their past lives... different as it may seem, but please... at least sympathize with our fellow blood who has enormously suffered at present just to survive with the difficult times our country has experienced right now. you may be lucky enough to be one among those who has followed the rules and do things legally, but how about those who are not fortunate enough to be like you? why did you came here and work or migrate in the first place? it is basically the same thing as those who came here illegally. they got definitely no choice. so, please, dont be too selfish by acquiring such previleges with the same purpose and the only difference is that you are luckier than they are… history repeats itself. in a different perspective maybe… now i am begging you to please do not take the right of our co-Filipinos to hope for a better life… legally or illegally… because that is absolutely the realities of life…
Aha,so you want to tell me or us now na dapat pagbayaran ng Japan ang mga ginawa nila noong World War 2? And how did you know na I did not consider the" huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandparents back in the 1940’s…"and so on?Taki,I have written in the Daily Yomiuri way back 1992 about the sufferings of my mother during the war.My mother became illiterate because by the time they are supposed to be in the classroom the Japanese warplanes dropped their bombs in our beloved country.My mother’s family lived in a handmade hole laboured by my grandfather in the dark and they stayed there till the war ended.How dare you to tell me that I do not consider these kind of sufferings? Inspite of this I think I cannot force this government to be kind to us just because of what they did to our parents and grandparents.I find it illogical.It is the right of anyone to hope for a better life.I do not subscribe to your belief whether “legally or illegally”. I choose legally instead.And hey, I did not came here to work or migrate in the first place.I am here because the situation calls for it.We have a big house in the Philippines and have properties there including land and a one floor building.We have lived there and left that place for good because my wife and my daughter cannot adopt to our way of living.I love my family I have to choose what is good for them forgetting mine.The situation calls that I have to stay with my family.I hope you believe this.I am not after the money that I am earning now.I was put in this situation,I did not choose it.Still I hope that our fellow Filipinos may find good blessings in their life but still I hope…may it be in the right way.God Bless Us All!
Dkid
01-16-2006, 11:24 PM
Aha,so you want to tell me or us now na dapat pagbayaran ng Japan ang mga ginawa nila noong World War 2? And how did you know na I did not consider the" huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandparents back in the 1940’s…"and so on?Taki,I have written in the Daily Yomiuri way back 1992 about the sufferings of my mother during the war.My mother became illiterate because by the time they are supposed to be in the classroom the Japanese warplanes dropped their bombs in our beloved country.My mother’s family lived in a handmade hole laboured by my grandfather in the dark and they stayed there till the war ended.How dare you to tell me that I do not consider these kind of sufferings? Inspite of this I think I cannot force this government to be kind to us just because of what they did to our parents and grandparents.I find it illogical.It is the right of anyone to hope for a better life.I do not subscribe to your belief whether “legally or illegally”. I choose legally instead.And hey, I did not came here to work or migrate in the first place.I am here because the situation calls for it.We have a big house in the Philippines and have properties there including land and a one floor building.We have lived there and left that place for good because my wife and my daughter cannot adopt to our way of living.I love my family I have to choose what is good for them forgetting mine.The situation calls that I have to stay with my family.I hope you believe this.I am not after the money that I am earning now.I was put in this situation,I did not choose it.Still I hope that our fellow Filipinos may find good blessings in their life but still I hope…may it be in the right way.God Bless Us All!
Fisher ang yaman mo pala. pautang naman jan, o kaya ako nalang titira sa malaking bahay mo para di na ako magbibilog.
You’re an honorable man, sacrificing yours for the sake of family. I salute!
pointblank
01-16-2006, 11:35 PM
I admire your patience in sharing so much info but I think the thread was started on how we can help the OFWs…Based on the many varied experiences you heard,maybe you can share a way out for our suffering OFWs? Like,what type of amnesty may be possible for them,if at all…Or how they can get out of the holes that they have dug themselves in…I am sure ,giving hafl the chance,they would rather stay legally rather than illegally in Japan…
Hello, chameleon.
Sad to say, wala akong alam na solution that will lead to the kind of results na inaasahan ng mga overstays. I am assuming that most overstays want to be given amnesty by the Japanese government, be issued a working visa, then be allowed to work in Japan legally as if nothing happened. Well, mahirap mangyari yan.
First, there is NO TYPE of amnesty whatsoever at the moment. I do not think there will be any amnesty in the near future, kahit ano pa ang sabihin ni Brother Mike sa mga prayer rallies niya. (Well, of course, baka malakas talaga siya sa Diyos, magkaroon ng milagro, we never know.)
Assuming that by miracle ay magkaroon ng amnesty. Ang mangyayari diyan sa tingin ko, yung mga qualified to work in Japan, bibigyan ng visa. Yung mga hindi qualified to work, papayagan umuwi ng Pinas na walang penalty, walang marka sa record nila. Now, tignan natin kung sino ang magiging qualified to work. Japan does NOT in principle accept blue collar workers kahit na lahing puti pa yung foreigner. (May mga nakakalusot sigurong puti, pero bawal yan.) Walang category ng visa for blue collar workers. If an overstay does not fall into one of the available categories, hindi siya mabibigyan ng visa kahit na magkaroon ng amnesty. He will have no choice but to return to the Philippines. Kahit na magka-amnesty, hindi ka papayagan na manatili sa Japan as a waiter.
It is already hoping a lot for amnesty to be granted - it is delusional to expect Japan to go further than that and overhaul its entire immigration system, which is premised on preserving social order in Japan, just so that everyone will be granted a visa. Kahit na ano pa ang sabihin ng mga politicians natin, let us be realistic and logical and consider the logistical impossibility of this.
In the meantime (which can easily be another 20 years) before any amnesty takes place, ano ang possible alternatives? For those who are not yet TNT, ika nga ni v_wrangler, never ever let your visas expire. Para sa mga nag-TNT na, dalawa lang: 1) sumuko at umuwi, 2) patuloy na mamuhay nang patago hanggang one day ay mahuli.
Kung piliin mong sumuko at umuwi, you will just have to trust in the goodwill of the Japanese government, that it will allow you to come back after several years. Walang guarantee yan. Dito pumapasok yung sina-suggest ni v_wrangler na reintegration sa buhay sa Pinas.
Para sa mga patuloy na mag-TNT, lie low lang kayo at huwag masyadong ma-bongga para di mapansin. Bawas lang sa pa-party-party o magpunta sa mga in-spots na maraming tao. Huwag din gagawa ng gulo (katulad ng maingay na stereo o TV) para di kayo i-complain ng mga kabitbahay ninyong Hapon. In short, try not to be medatsu. I do not know what else to advice you. Oo nga pala, mag-ipon na kayo ng husto, para naman in case minalas kayo at nahuli, meron naman kayong mauuwi sa Pinas.
Some discussants even went beyond the limits, branding those overstayers as walang disciplina, mayabang, at walang pinag-aralan! This line of reasoning can only be acceptable in a Philo 101 subject, which says: Monkey eat bananas, Pedro eat bananas, therefore Pedro is a monkey.
Hello, Dkid. Gusto ko lang mag-verify, just in case malabo na ang mata ko at hindi ko nakita…
I went over all the posts again, but can you please point out where anyone said or even implied na ang mga overstay ay “walang pinag-aralan”?
We are trying to be compassionate and understanding here. The overstay issue is a common problem of all Pinoys in Japan.The above accusation should not be made if it cannot be proven, because it creates an atmosphere of animosity by pitting “us” against “them” or “legals” versus “illegals”. It does not help.
Also, meron bang nagsabing “all overstays are walang disciplina at mayabang”? Please quote it for us.
If an idea of amnesty sprouts, it is ironic that our very own countrymen says the contrary, as if they are against it. Some people says “suntok sa buwan”, is it really? I assumed it to be a hyperbole. What if the discussant really mean it? I beg to disagree, it may happen, though probably in the generation of Mr. Marty Mcfly and Dr. Emmet Brown.
Again, NO ONE who has posted here in this thread is against amnesty. Hindi naman siguro ganun karamot ang mga Pilipino na ipagkakaila niya ang legal status sa kapwa-Pilipino. If we had the authority to grant them a visa, we would!!
What several posters, including myself, are saying is: MAHIRAP at MATAGAL pa bago magkaroon ng amnesty. Ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na “probably in the generation of Dr. Emmet Brown.” By then, it will be too late for the overstaying Pinoys who are here. In short, HOPING for amnesty is not a viable solution for overstaying Filipinos. In my opinion, there is nothing more cruel than offering FALSE hope - leading people on to believe in something that will never happen quickly enough to be of use to him in the first place. (Parang cancer patient na pinapayuan na uminom ng toning water ni Johnny Midnight imbis na magpagamot sa duktor. By the time he finds out toning water does not work, it is too late for him to be saved by the doctor.) Mabuti na yung maaga pa ay makakita ng malinaw at makakapag-bagong buhay habang may panahon pa.
In this regard, you have a lot to teach us. As one of the Filipinos who willingly went back and was able to successfully return legally, your experience will be infinitely more beneficial for overstaying Filipinos than this hoping-for-amnesty thing.
fisher
01-16-2006, 11:40 PM
Fisher ang yaman mo pala. pautang naman jan, o kaya ako nalang titira sa malaking bahay mo para di na ako magbibilog.
You’re an honorable man, sacrificing yours for the sake of family. I salute!
Uncle,pinili ko lang iyong tama.At saka okay itong thread na ito nalalaman natin ang mga kaisipan ng mga kapwa nating Pilipino.
.Malay natin baka nga magising ang mga kinauukulan at maihingi nila ng tulong ang mga kapatid nating nagtatago dito.If that time comes,ako ang unang-unang matutuwa.
Dkid
01-16-2006, 11:57 PM
Hello, Dkid. Gusto ko lang mag-verify, just in case malabo na ang mata ko at hindi ko nakita…
I went over all the posts again, but can you please point out where anyone said or even implied na ang mga overstay ay “walang pinag-aralan”?
We are trying to be compassionate and understanding here. The overstay issue is a common problem of all Pinoys in Japan.The above accusation should not be made if it cannot be proven, because it creates an atmosphere of animosity by pitting “us” against “them” or “legals” versus “illegals”. It does not help.
Also, meron bang nagsabing “all overstays are walang disciplina at mayabang”? Please quote it for us.
I’m sorry hindi ko na quote dito sa thread. I’ve read it in another related thread, kaya di mo po nabasa. At one thing sure, hindi po sinabi na “all”. Pagnahanap ko yon, I’ll post the quote. Dineadma ko lang at first, because I thought he was just referring to “Pedro”. Kaya naidagdag ko nalang dito.
Pero I’m sure na nandito lang yung author, sounds familiar kasi, he may come out and post his side
Again, NO ONE who has posted here in this thread is against amnesty. Hindi naman siguro ganun karamot ang mga Pilipino na ipagkakaila niya ang legal status sa kapwa-Pilipino. If we had the authority to grant them a visa, we would!!
Yes its true, but as I see it, some implied.
What several posters, including myself, are saying is: MAHIRAP at MATAGAL pa bago magkaroon ng amnesty. Ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na “probably in the generation of Dr. Emmet Brown.”
Sorry din dito. Pati ito, sa ibang thread ko po nabasa, sinabing “suntok sa buwan” daw. Pagnahanap ko na rin to, I’ll quote it here.
Pero again, mukhang familiar din kasi ang author, baka lalabas nalang sya, mas madali siguro
In this regard, you have a lot to teach us. As one of the Filipinos who willingly went back and was able to successfully return legally, your experience will be infinitely more beneficial for overstaying Filipinos than this hoping-for-amnesty thing.[/quote]
Kapag may issue tungkol dito, o kaya may magtanong, I will come out in the open.
taki
01-17-2006, 03:49 PM
Just one clarification: like I’ve already said before, I am not condemning overstaying Filipinos, and have no intention of making them feel unwelcome. Nandiyan na yan, at wala na tayong magagawa.
—> bad reputation was directly or indirectly and repeatedly blamed to overstaying Filipinos in some of the posts here or maybe in other threads, is that how we made them feel welcome? right, these already exist that is why i am asking for your opinion on how we can help them instead of blaming them.
What I am saying is: let us NOT ENCOURAGE more Filipinos to choose the overstaying option. And one way to do this is to point out the risks of overstaying or working without a proper visa.
—> who encourages this act anyway? what we are discussing here are the overstaying Filipinos not those who intend to overstay. well, ive met several Filipinos whos visa is about to expire and i have emphasized to them the risks and the many disadvantages of illegal staying in Japan, same with the one you are suggesting.
I sometimes come across posts in Timog Forum that gives suggestions on how to make “lusot” against immigration and labor rules. Hindi tama ito, and as TF members, hindi natin sana dapat kunukunsinti ang paglabag ng batas by teaching newcomers how to circumvent the law. Alam naman natin na hindi pwede magtrabaho on a tourist visa, pagkatapos sasabihan natin na “mag-baito ka dito, mag-English teacher ka diyan, mag-waiter ka doon”. Kahit na gipit yung tao, mali ang payong yun dahil gagawin mo siyang ilegal.
—> ikaw na mismo nagsabi noon, ang mga Pilipino mahilig magpalusot. this character will never be taken away from us Filipinos, especially with the current crisis that our country is experiencing. mali kung sa mali, but the intention can perhaps justify the reasons for committing such act. bakit magsasayang pa ng pamasahe ang isang tao para makapunta dito tapos sasabihin wag magtrabaho dito. oo, mali nga, pero kung yun lang din ang ibibigay na advise, better wag nalang pumunta dito. maybe the best thing to do is to discourage Filipinos to come here to Japan. unless if the person is super-rich at magto-tour lang talaga.
As for the amnesty, I am not saying that they don’t deserve it. What I am saying is, it will be very difficult and they will most likely not get it. The best advice is an honest one. Let’s be honest and not give desperate people false hope. Panloloko yan ng mga politicians para makakuha ng boto - they will come here and “promise” to push the Japanese government for amnesty if you vote for them. The Japanese government is extremely stingy in even giving visas to bona fide Indochinese refugees under the UN relocation program - what are the chances they will consider across-the-board amnesty?
-----> by saying that amnesty is close to impossible, is simply encouraging overstaying foreigners to do by all means just to stay here legally. what we want here are opinions which several of the members have already shared. for sure we can learn many viewpoints. i agree to some of us here who wants possible solutions not arguments. if other countries have granted amnesty program, then why can`t Japan? maybe some members here can share their knowledge and good ideas.
As for people being aware of the consequences of their actions & being prepared for it … I really don’t think so. Ang dami dami daaaaaaaaami kong alam na kaso ng mga overstay who, after many years here, still have not saved any money (either in Japan or in the Philippines) for the day that they are caught and sent home. Many overstays who are caught end up depending on NGOs and Filipino community contributions to even buy their tickets to go back home. Yan ba ang “have prepared themselves”?
-----> well, im pretty sure this case doesnt speak for the majority of the apprehended overstaying Filipinos. but with your opinion, maybe we can help them prepare themselves. i didnt know there were NGOs who offers a plane ticket. is this true?
Again, my point is: let us not encourage new overstaying. For the people already here, nandiyan na yan. Not once in any of my posts did I directly advice that overstaying Filipinos should turn themselves in. I have no right to do so, since I obviously cannot guarantee their future. This is a big decision that should be made by each individual.
-----> perhaps you have indirectly advice to turn themselves in…
On the contrary, the OFW phenomenon is encouraging Pinoys back home TO BE LAZY.
Several surveys recently conducted by various NGOs, UN agencies, the ADB and even the Philippine government reveal the detrimental social & economic effects of overseas migrant workers.
In their findings, as much as 80% of households in some communities with a family member working abroad rely SOLELY on the income of that OFW for their living expenses. This includes families who have employable male members: able-bodied fathers, husbands, brothers or sons who choose to make tambay at home instead of working, depending instead on the remittance of the female OFW. One of the studies quotes a husband, “Bakit ko pa kailangan magtrabaho, e malaki naman yung pinapadala ng asawa ko…” Kung hindi LAZY ang tawag diyan, ano?
-----> this is totally unbelievable!!!
One woman OFW I know who has been here for almost 2 decades complains that she still cannot go home because she still has “obligations”. After slaving off for so many years to send her children to school (including a son who graduated from law school, at that), she now has to support her GRANDchildren, including the child of her lawyer son. Ano ba yan?
----> sobra naman to…
I’ve also mentioned the case of the overstay whose daughter goes to Miriam in a chauffered car dahil di daw siya marunong mag-public transpo. Susmaryosep, social climber pa ang dakilang dawter!
----> well, who`s to be blamed here? the daughter or the mother?
Totoo, maraming pamilya ng OFW ang naghihirap. Pero marami din ang spoiled at plain tamad! I cannot help but sometimes feel that this “poverty” story is overused. In the first place, the really really poor people do not have the means to even come to Japan. At the very least, mga lower middle class na yan. Alam naman natin na ang Pinoy, mahilig sa mga pahingi-ng-luha, martir-na-api, Nora Aunor type stories…
-----> good research pointblank, pero sigurado ako mas marami pa rin ang naghihirap kesa spoiled at tamad. sa mga stories mo, wala akong naririnig na case dun sa naghihirap. para hindi ka rin one-sided. thanks.
Raiden
01-17-2006, 03:55 PM
Some discussants even went beyond the limits, branding those overstayers as walang disciplina, mayabang, at walang pinag-aralan! This line of reasoning can only be acceptable in a Philo 101 subject, which says: Monkey eat bananas, Pedro eat bananas, therefore Pedro is a monkey. Calling these people as such is akin to branding them as undesirables.
Hello Dkid,
Pakiramdam ko ako yata ang tinutukoy mo. 
Could this be the post that you might have misinterpreted?
Bakit naman kasi hindi gawin sa tamang paraan ang pakikipagsapalaran sa ibang bansa. Bukod sa paglabag sa batas at di pagrespeto sa mga alituntunin ng bansang gustong puntahan, mas exposed pa ang mga kababyan nating walang lehitimong papeles sa exploitation at human trafficking.
Diyan magagaling ang mga Pinoy, sa palusutan, making excuses, at “diskarte” kuno.
May mga nagsasabing “ginagawa namin itong illegal na gawain dahil naghihirap kami”, pero sa tingin ko kaya sila naghihirap ay dahil wala silang disiplina, gusto lahat ng bagay ay makamit nang mabilis kahit may natatapakan, mahihilig mag-short cut kahit lumalabag sa batas. Inuuna pa yung kayabangan kaysa sa pag-aaral. Tinganan na lang natin ang kinasusklaman nating gobyerno ng Pilipinas at mga goverment officials, eh di ba ganoon din sila dumiskarte.
Mahilig kasi tayo sa short cut, more often than not mas malaking bulilyaso ang kinahihinatnan.
Opinyon ko lang po. Pasensiya na kung mayaroon mang nasagasaan.
I suggest you read it again, and please don’t take it out of context.
This is another one of my posts from the same thread as the above, which supplements it.
Alam ko na lahat tayo ay naghahangad na mabigyan ng magandang kinabukasan ang ating mga mahal sa buhay, pero dapat sa tamang pamamaraan, para sa ikabubuti ng lahat. Makabubuti sa nag-abroad dahil bukod sa pag retain ng kanyang dignity, eh hindi pa siya lingon nang lingon over his shoulders na parang laging may nagmamasid sa kanya. Makabubuti sa mga naiwang mahal sa buhay sa Pilipinas dahil mas maipagmamalaki at mas maaappreciate nila yung pinaghihirapan nung nag-abroad at magsisilbi pa siyang magandang example na dapat tularan sa mga naiwanan. Makabubuti sa Japan, US, Italy, Israel, o anumang bansa na gustong puntahan ng mga kababayan natin dahil walang batas o alituntunin nila ang nilabag.
Nabalitaan niyo ba nung World Youth Day na ginanap sa Cologne, Germany. Yung mga Filipino delegates eh hindi binigyan ng Visa ng German Embassy dahil suspetsa nila na mahigit sa kalahati nung mga delegates ang matutuksong mag-TNT sa Germany. Ang laking kahihiyan yon di ba? Pero hindi ko naman masisi ang mga Aleman, dahil sa reputasyon nating mga Pilipino.
Kung gusto nating mabago ang lagay ng Pilipinas, kanino pa ba magsisimula kundi sa ating mga sarili.
If you sped off your car at 86kph at a road of 80 kph limit,
am I free to call you quoting your own words?We donot know their reasons, let us not make negative assumptions, because if we do so, the assumption is congruent to the author itself.
Come on kiddo, I know you’re smart enough to know the difference between a minor infraction and a felony.
Okay, think about this.
Had they been conducting themselves appropriately as representatives of the Philippines in another country, wheter it’s the US, Japan or whatever, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Yes?
taki
01-17-2006, 04:36 PM
Aha,so you want to tell me or us now na dapat pagbayaran ng Japan ang mga ginawa nila noong World War 2? And how did you know na I did not consider the" huge sacrifices encountered by our great grandparents back in the 1940’s…"and so on?Taki,I have written in the Daily Yomiuri way back 1992 about the sufferings of my mother during the war.My mother became illiterate because by the time they are supposed to be in the classroom the Japanese warplanes dropped their bombs in our beloved country.My mother’s family lived in a handmade hole laboured by my grandfather in the dark and they stayed there till the war ended.How dare you to tell me that I do not consider these kind of sufferings? Inspite of this I think I cannot force this government to be kind to us just because of what they did to our parents and grandparents.I find it illogical.It is the right of anyone to hope for a better life.I do not subscribe to your belief whether “legally or illegally”. I choose legally instead.And hey, I did not came here to work or migrate in the first place.I am here because the situation calls for it.We have a big house in the Philippines and have properties there including land and a one floor building.We have lived there and left that place for good because my wife and my daughter cannot adopt to our way of living.I love my family I have to choose what is good for them forgetting mine.The situation calls that I have to stay with my family.I hope you believe this.I am not after the money that I am earning now.I was put in this situation,I did not choose it.Still I hope that our fellow Filipinos may find good blessings in their life but still I hope…may it be in the right way.God Bless Us All!
i would like to reiterate fisher, at least a sympathy from a wealthy and fortunate individuals like you, will certainly do. as what also dkid wants to imply to us all here. well, now i know why you couldn`t sympathize with these people. your revelation elucidates everything.
now i would like to quote you again and try to analyze your statement if it is as pleasing as you being a law abiding citizen;
“Ikaw naman taki nagkamali ka na nga tapos gagawa ka pa ng isa pang kamalian?Just thinking doing something like this I will not consider you a trustful person.Kahit na gaano ka pa ka-succesfull sa Pilipinas you are not that one here and it doesn’t matter to the Japanese government.Ang illegal ay illegal period!”
----> as if you are talking to a kid. at ano naman ang pagkakamali ko na sinasabi mo? ang magbigay simpatiya sa mga kababayan nating bilog? at sa paghanap ng kasagutan sa mga tanong nila at maari nilang gawin upang ma-resolba ang problema nila? i may not be that successful with my career for now fisher, but i am challenging you, in the years to come, i will be more successful than you do. i swear to God!
“Now, to hope na sana magbigay ng consideration ang Japanese government sa mga illegal ay parang malabo pa sa ngayon iyan.Ang alam ko kapag nahuli ka or sumuko ka you cannot enter Japan for atleast 1 year nga yata.Pero malabo pa rin iyan dahil kung ako ang nasa position ng Japanese government I will not let anyone to enter my gates again if he/she did something wrong before.Period at period pa rin.Peace tayo pare ko:D .”
----> why are we so pessimistic about the granting of amnesty program? and see how rude you will be if you are with the Japanese government, ayaw mo nang pabalikin dito yung nakagawa na ng offense before. samantalang ang mga Hapon nga mismo bibigyan lang ng ilang years na sanction. para hindi ka ma-offend, dapat careful ka rin na hindi ka nakaka-offend sa ibang tao. peace din tayo pare ko.
chameleon
01-17-2006, 04:43 PM
Dear Pointblank,
I think the scenario you painted if amnesty is possible at all is reasonable…that only white collar workers may have the possibility of getting a work visa…that others may have a slim chance of getting hired…
But there are also TNTs who have forged relationships and who have been faithfully doing hard and honest work here in Japan for like 10 years plus but who are just afraid of making lantad wherein in the same process they are also afraid of legalizing their long-term relationships or making the first step towards legalizing their status…for fear of exposure or capture … I can just imagine their blinding fear of not knowing where to turn…or who to turn to…I think they have friends and lasting networks here in Japan to be able to survive being TNTs that long…These are the people who need our help…
It might be similar to being unable to take a glorious dip in the ocean for fear of being sunburned…what they need is a sun protection…and this is where the Embassy and where the Filipino support group can come in… maybe if we can offer a consultation process or present possible scenarios or give them a liaison system…which can give them some sort of hope or bridge towards redeeming themselves…I cant exactly imagine the structure and legal implications but WE MUST ALL AGREE TO DISAGREE despite OUR MIXED OPINIONS ON TNTS or OFWs that they all need our help .one way or another…
If we can brainstorm towards this end ,instead of rationalizing why and where and how they ended up that way, maybe we can get somewhere…WHAT IS DONE IS DONE…we must all look towards the future…( NAKS…poetic naman)
Like why not hold a symposium or debate in Tokyo or in some university venues or in the Embassy between Filipino associations or groups or student groups with Embassy legal people present or some legal luminaries present to shed light on the issue? This issue is a thorn in our sides for so long…we need a tool to take it out by illuminating what possible scenarios are possible…
CHALLENGE anyone…?
taki
01-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Dear Pointblank,
I think the scenario you painted if amnesty is possible at all is reasonable…that only white collar workers may have the possibility of getting a work visa…that others may have a slim chance of getting hired…
But there are also TNTs who have forged relationships and who have been faithfully doing hard and honest work here in Japan for like 10 years plus but who are just afraid of making lantad wherein in the same process they are also afraid of legalizing their long-term relationships or making the first step towards legalizing their status…for fear of exposure or capture … I can just imagine their blinding fear of not knowing where to turn…or who to turn to…I think they have friends and lasting networks here in Japan to be able to survive being TNTs that long…These are the people who need our help…
It might be similar to being unable to take a glorious dip in the ocean for fear of being sunburned…what they need is a sun protection…and this is where the Embassy and where the Filipino support group can come in… maybe if we can offer a consultation process or present possible scenarios or give them a liaison system…which can give them some sort of hope or bridge towards redeeming themselves…I cant exactly imagine the structure and legal implications but WE MUST ALL AGREE TO DISAGREE despite OUR MIXED OPINIONS ON TNTS or OFWs that they all need our help .one way or another…
If we can brainstorm towards this end ,instead of rationalizing why and where and how they ended up that way, maybe we can get somewhere…WHAT IS DONE IS DONE…we must all look towards the future…( NAKS…poetic naman)
Like why not hold a symposium or debate in Tokyo or in some university venues or in the Embassy between Filipino associations or groups or student groups with Embassy legal people present or some legal luminaries present to shed light on the issue? This issue is a thorn in our sides for so long…we need a tool to take it out by illuminating what possible scenarios are possible…
CHALLENGE anyone…?
nice point Chameleon. im sorry wasnt able to run through with your suggestion in your first posts in this thread. was kinda busy then…
miles
01-17-2006, 07:43 PM
Mabuhay!! magandang usapan, sana makapag bigay din ako ng comment regarding the issue pero, d2 na ko sa Pinas, I was over stayed before pero hanggang ngayon may ilusyon pa rin akong makabalik.
Isa lang ang tanong ko, Sino ba ang may gustong gumawa ng illegal na desisyon na maging bilog. I talking to myself. Pinag- isipan kong mabuti kung uuwi ako o hindi ng malapit ng mag - expire ang visa ko. kung uuwi ako walang hanapbuhay na maghihintay sa akin sa Pinas. Hindi naman ako nakaipon, dahil 3 months lang ako; so i decided to over stay. ang ginawa ko nagtrabaho, nag trabaho at nagtrabaho at nag ipon. Mahirap ang buhay ng bilog at nag-iisa., laging may kaba na baka matiklo ka; at napagsamantalahan ng lakas sa pag gawa, nawalan ng karapatang lumaban at magsiwalat ng nasa kalooban. Pero ang lahat ng ito ay tiniis ko. Bakit ?dahil sa pamilya sa pinas. I disagree sa sinabi ng isang kasama na tamad at hinahayaan nating maging tamad ang pamilya sa pinas. there is no choice. walang trabaho d2 !!! yan ang malinaw. kung bakit di mabilang na pilipinong gustong mangibang bansa hindi lang sa japan, kung hindi sa iba pang bansa, at lahat ay gagawin nila legal man o illegal na pamamaraan. Bakit nila gagawin? para magtrabaho… at mgsikap… ganyan ba ang tamad??? Any way sorry kung masyado kong naging emosyonal. hindi na siguro importante kung malinis o di malinis ang trabaho ng ilang kababayan natin dyan sa japan. ang importante may buhay silang binubuhay sa pinas.
docomo
01-17-2006, 08:09 PM
Mabuhay!! magandang usapan, sana makapag bigay din ako ng comment regarding the issue pero, d2 na ko sa Pinas, I was over stayed before pero hanggang ngayon may ilusyon pa rin akong makabalik.
Isa lang ang tanong ko, Sino ba ang may gustong gumawa ng illegal na desisyon na maging bilog. I talking to myself. Pinag- isipan kong mabuti kung uuwi ako o hindi ng malapit ng mag - expire ang visa ko. kung uuwi ako walang hanapbuhay na maghihintay sa akin sa Pinas. Hindi naman ako nakaipon, dahil 3 months lang ako; so i decided to over stay. ang ginawa ko nagtrabaho, nag trabaho at nagtrabaho at nag ipon. Mahirap ang buhay ng bilog at nag-iisa., laging may kaba na baka matiklo ka; at napagsamantalahan ng lakas sa pag gawa, nawalan ng karapatang lumaban at magsiwalat ng nasa kalooban. Pero ang lahat ng ito ay tiniis ko. Bakit ?dahil sa pamilya sa pinas. I disagree sa sinabi ng isang kasama na tamad at hinahayaan nating maging tamad ang pamilya sa pinas. there is no choice. walang trabaho d2 !!! yan ang malinaw. kung bakit di mabilang na pilipinong gustong mangibang bansa hindi lang sa japan, kung hindi sa iba pang bansa, at lahat ay gagawin nila legal man o illegal na pamamaraan. Bakit nila gagawin? para magtrabaho… at mgsikap… ganyan ba ang tamad??? Any way sorry kung masyado kong naging emosyonal. hindi na siguro importante kung malinis o di malinis ang trabaho ng ilang kababayan natin dyan sa japan. ang importante may buhay silang binubuhay sa pinas.
I see your point… may choice talaga pero minsan out of choice na talaga , but to choose the other option … (miles …hindi naman siguro nilalahat nung isang member , example lang kumbaga …kung halimbawang tamad nga na nagiinom pa o mga nagsusugal pa o nakatambay lang yun naman ang di magandang tulungan … naghihirap kumbaga ditong kumayod tapos sila dun nagpapasarap lang, naghihintay lang ng grasya … pangit naman din yon diba… )
- sa akin ke bilog o hindi … wag alisin yung dignidad sa sarili…
adechan
01-17-2006, 09:29 PM
sige na nga makisingit na rin.
para po sa akin
ang mga pilipinong nasa japan
overstay man o visa holder,
lahat pare parehong pilipino at pare parehong tao.
may kanya kanyang dahilan sa buhay
may kanya kanyang sitwasyon
may kanya kanyang dalang problema o ambisyon
mayroong “ikagen” (bad character)
at mayroong “majime” (good character)
may visa man o wala.
pero ang illegal ay illegal
tama po ang sabi sa mga naunang post
na kung gustong mag TNT think it twice.
wala kang gaanong chance
usually ang choice mo lang ay gemba at mizu shobai
pero talaga pong masarap kung ma aa prubahan ang amnesty for overstaying Filipinos.
may kilala po akong mag-asawang pilipino, ang mga anak nila koukosei na (highschool)
they are well respected sa neighborhood, well paid and loved sa trabaho niya, maraming kaibigang japanese from PTA. They live here na parang legal sila. Kulang na lang po talaga visa.
sabi po ni docomo, bilog man o hindi wag alisin ang dignidad sa sarili:)
DATING overstay
adechan
Dkid
01-17-2006, 09:35 PM
[quote=Raiden]Hello Dkid,
Pakiramdam ko ako yata ang tinutukoy mo. Could this be the post that you might have misinterpreted?
Yes, that’s exactly the post that I might have “misinterpreted”. Sorry for this, baka nga mahina lang talaga ang pick-up ko. Anyway, its written there, anybody’s interpretation might be the contrary or in the same perspective with the author’s, though mine stays the same.
We might be on the opposite sides of this issue, though I prefer more concrete rather than seeing scuds flying, coz I don’t have a single patriot, all I have is a kids glove.
Nevertheless, we may be on the same boat in some other issues, like I’m sure we cheer together for Manny against Eric. Manny in 6.
fisher
01-17-2006, 10:28 PM
Hi taki, Hindi ko binabalewala ang case ng mga kababayan natin na mga TNT.What I am trying to tell you is “what is wrong is wrong”.Hindi naman natin maikakaila na mayroon sa mga kababayan natin na TNT na sinapit nila ang ganitong sitwasyon dahil na rin sa kagustuhan nila at tapos here we are hoping for the Japanese government to be lenient?Fine if that happens.At saka bago nagpunta dito 'yung iba ay talagang nasa isip na ang pagti-TNT na hindi natin maikakaila.Am I wrong with this?Premeditated kasi ang lahat.
I am not a rich person taki,at this moment baka mas marasap pa ang hapunan mo kaysa sa akin.Sinagot ko lang ang sinabi mo na bakit ako nagtatrabaho at nagpunta dito.Again,I will repeat to you na it is not for economic reason.Okay,work hard for your future if someday you will be a succesfull person that is good.Do not swear it to God because I am not contesting with you in term of riches.I don’t consider myself a rich person and never was I.Namumuhay lang ako ng ayon sa batas.Btw,marami akong kaibigan na mgaTNT at isinasama ko pa nga sila sa pamimingwit sa dagat.I pity them lalo na’t hindi sila makapag-gala gala.I don’t hate them.Someone told me na gusto na niyang umuwi,I ask him kung may naipon na siya at pwede na siyang mamuhay sa Pilipinas.Then,in the long run siya pa rin ang magdedesisyon nu’n at hindi ako.Hindi ko sila kinukunsinti pero dahil nga sa nandito na sila sa ganitong sitwasyon naiintindihan ko rin sila but not na good ang ginawa nilang pagti-TNT dahil para sa akin that is against the law.Maganda itong ginawa mong diskusyon at marami tayong nalalaman.Hinahangad ko rin iyang leniency na iyan na tulad ng ginawa ng U.S kaya lang iba kasi ang takbo ng isip ng mga Hapones kaya palagay ko ay malabo pa sa ngayon.Peace tayo pare:D .
p.s
Ang sinasabi kong mali ay ang sinabi mo na kung may resources na makakuha ng marriage visa sa pamamagitan ng kasal sa isang permanent resident o isang Japanese national whether for reality or an agreement for a minimal cost.Maganda sana iyong “for reality” ang ayaw ko ay yung “agreement for a minimal cost”.Pare,para sa akin kasi mali iyon.Kapag yumaman ka na,invite mo naman ako for a drink.
taki
01-17-2006, 11:33 PM
Mabuhay!! magandang usapan, sana makapag bigay din ako ng comment regarding the issue pero, d2 na ko sa Pinas, I was over stayed before pero hanggang ngayon may ilusyon pa rin akong makabalik.
Isa lang ang tanong ko, Sino ba ang may gustong gumawa ng illegal na desisyon na maging bilog. I talking to myself. Pinag- isipan kong mabuti kung uuwi ako o hindi ng malapit ng mag - expire ang visa ko. kung uuwi ako walang hanapbuhay na maghihintay sa akin sa Pinas. Hindi naman ako nakaipon, dahil 3 months lang ako; so i decided to over stay. ang ginawa ko nagtrabaho, nag trabaho at nagtrabaho at nag ipon. Mahirap ang buhay ng bilog at nag-iisa., laging may kaba na baka matiklo ka; at napagsamantalahan ng lakas sa pag gawa, nawalan ng karapatang lumaban at magsiwalat ng nasa kalooban. Pero ang lahat ng ito ay tiniis ko. Bakit ?dahil sa pamilya sa pinas. I disagree sa sinabi ng isang kasama na tamad at hinahayaan nating maging tamad ang pamilya sa pinas. there is no choice. walang trabaho d2 !!! yan ang malinaw. kung bakit di mabilang na pilipinong gustong mangibang bansa hindi lang sa japan, kung hindi sa iba pang bansa, at lahat ay gagawin nila legal man o illegal na pamamaraan. Bakit nila gagawin? para magtrabaho… at mgsikap… ganyan ba ang tamad??? Any way sorry kung masyado kong naging emosyonal. hindi na siguro importante kung malinis o di malinis ang trabaho ng ilang kababayan natin dyan sa japan. ang importante may buhay silang binubuhay sa pinas.
thanks miles for sharing your true to life experience and i completely sympathize with your sentiments. that is exactly what i want to hear… pero ewan ko ba kung bakit may iba talagang member dito na hindi na ata marunong umunawa. nabibingi na ako sa kakadinig sa kanila na mali, illegal, hindi tama, kulang nalang sabihin nila umalis na kayo dito dahil nakakasira kayo sa imahe ng mga Pilipino. pero ang nakikita ko pansarili lang pala. mapalad kasi sila kaya madaling sabihin yun at hindi nila naranasan yung hirap na dinaanan ng mga bilog.
kung ang isang Pilipina na legal na namumuhay dito sa bansang Hapon, may isang kamag-anak na sobrang naghihirap sa pinas at wala na talagang mapuntahan. siempre, unang una tutulungan si kamag-anak. pero hindi sa lahat ng panahon gagawin nya ito, d ba? bilang Pilipino, nasa puso na natin ang magtulungan kahit hindi mo man responsibilidad lalo na pag kamag-anak. posibling ma-isip ni Pilipina ay i-sponsor si kamag-anak at pagbilogin sa Japan para matulungan ang saariling pamilya nito. na kahit yung asawa niyang Hapon mismo ang magsa-suggest dahil si Hapon mismo alam niya ang sitwasyon ng kamag-anak sa pinas at naa-awa. oo mali, pero ano pa ba ang pedeng gawin ni Pilipina para matulungan ang kamag-anak? magpadala nalang ng pera buwan buwan kay kamag-anak? hayaan nalang si kamag-anak na mamatay sa hirap? o papuntahin mo nalang dito at pagbilogin? may ibang choice pa ba?
taki
01-17-2006, 11:49 PM
[quote=Raiden]Hello Dkid,
Pakiramdam ko ako yata ang tinutukoy mo. Could this be the post that you might have misinterpreted?
Yes, that’s exactly the post that I might have “misinterpreted”. Sorry for this, baka nga mahina lang talaga ang pick-up ko. Anyway, its written there, anybody’s interpretation might be the contrary or in the same perspective with the author’s, though mine stays the same.
We might be on the opposite sides of this issue, though I prefer more concrete rather than seeing scuds flying, coz I don’t have a single patriot, all I have is a kids glove.
Nevertheless, we may be on the same boat in some other issues, like I’m sure we cheer together for Manny against Eric. Manny in 6.
i would say, i have the same interpretation with dkid. tagalog na nga yun at mas madaling intindihin. pero yun talaga ang kinalabasan eh.
@raiden
baka pede mong i-brief yung interpretation mo sa post mo before para ma-gets kaagad namin kung ano talaga ang point mo dun.
@dkid
kelan po ang re-match?
depp
01-18-2006, 12:00 AM
nalulungkot lang ako o nasasaktan sa mga nababsa ko dito,kaya ayaw kong sumilip dito,sa a to a incident na thread din,at dun pa sa 1 thread,kalimitan negative side ng mga bilog o nag-bilog ang mababasa ko.
pwede naman po tayong mag-give na lang ng advise o magsermon,wag na lang magsalita ng masakit.me nasasaktan po.
nagbilog po ako,pinatawad ng bansang japan at eto na po ako ngayon.positive side na ngyari sa pagbibilog ko,ang anak ko na syang dahilan nun ay isa na pong intl.flight stewardess.2 yrs.na po sya sa trabaho na yun at the age of 22.
inuulit ko lang po,huwag na tayong magsalita ng masakit sa kapwa,dahil pare-pareho lang tayong mga pilipino.alam ko ang hirap,dusa,dugo at pawis ng pagiging bilog.
tama yung sinabi ni adechan,kahit bilog o visa holder,me masamat mabuti.
taki
01-18-2006, 12:28 AM
Hi taki, Hindi ko binabalewala ang case ng mga kababayan natin na mga TNT
----> pagkatapos mong sabihin na if you were with the Japanese government, you will not allow anyone to enter into your gates if he has done wrong before? baka kelangan mong i-review yung mga post mo fisher.
What I am trying to tell you is “what is wrong is wrong”.
----> nabibingi na talaga ako dito sa line na to. alam naman po ng lahat yan…
Hindi naman natin maikakaila na mayroon sa mga kababayan natin na TNT na sinapit nila ang ganitong sitwasyon dahil na rin sa kagustuhan nila at tapos here we are hoping for the Japanese government to be lenient?Fine if that happens.At saka bago nagpunta dito 'yung iba ay talagang nasa isip na ang pagti-TNT na hindi natin maikakaila.Am I wrong with this?Premeditated kasi ang lahat.
----> i am sorry pero this doesn`t apply to everyone. yung iba nga, mga Hapon pa ang nagencourage na magbilog eh kahit na ayaw ng tao. tulad ng sinabi ni miles, 3 months lang siya, wala pang na-ipon, walang trabaho pag umuwi sa pinas… anong mangyayari sa kanya pag-umuwi siya sa sitwayon na yun?
I am not a rich person taki,at this moment baka mas marasap pa ang hapunan mo kaysa sa akin.Sinagot ko lang ang sinabi mo na bakit ako nagtatrabaho at nagpunta dito.Again,I will repeat to you na it is not for economic reason.
----> ahhhh… kaya pala pinagkalat mo dito sa thread na malaki ang bahay mo sa pinas, may mga lupain ka, 1-storey building, para sabihin lang na hindi economic reason ang pagpunta mo dito? ano pala? for pleasure lang? eh di mayaman ka nga…
Okay,work hard for your future if someday you will be a succesfull person that is good.Do not swear it to God because I am not contesting with you in term of riches.
----> na-hurt lang talaga yung ego ko nung sinabi mo na “sa pinas successful ako pero dito hindi… dahil nasa Japan tayo” wow! plus yung dialogue mo pa na “ikaw taki, nagkamali ka na nga… etc…” you have also no right to tell me that… kilala mo ba ako in the first place? close ba tayo fisher? hehehe!!!
I don’t consider myself a rich person and never was I.Namumuhay lang ako ng ayon sa batas.
—> nasabi mo lang yan dahil may choice ka lang na mamuhay dito ayon sa batas. sino ba naman ang pipili sa maling paraan kung wala ka na talagang ibang choice? again, sympathize and empathize.
Btw,marami akong kaibigan na mgaTNT at isinasama ko pa nga sila sa pamimingwit sa dagat.I pity them lalo na’t hindi sila makapag-gala gala.I don’t hate them.Someone told me na gusto na niyang umuwi,I ask him kung may naipon na siya at pwede na siyang mamuhay sa Pilipinas.Then,in the long run siya pa rin ang magdedesisyon nu’n at hindi ako.Hindi ko sila kinukunsinti pero dahil nga sa nandito na sila sa ganitong sitwasyon naiintindihan ko rin sila but not na good ang ginawa nilang pagti-TNT dahil para sa akin that is against the law.
----> hindi naman ibig sabihin na naintindihan mo sila eh sang-ayon ka na dun sa gawaing ito. sabi nga ng karamihan, anjan na yan, wala na tayong magagawa. pero sa tingin meron pa, kaya nga gusto kong i-discuss naten dito ang mga posibling paraan para matulungan sila. meron sang-ayon tayo at meron hindi, ang importante magkaintindihan tayo at iwasan na makasakit sa damdamin ng kapwa member.
p.s
Ang sinasabi kong mali ay ang sinabi mo na kung may resources na makakuha ng marriage visa sa pamamagitan ng kasal sa isang permanent resident o isang Japanese national whether for reality or an agreement for a minimal cost.Maganda sana iyong “for reality” ang ayaw ko ay yung “agreement for a minimal cost”.Pare,para sa akin kasi mali iyon.
-----> na-open up ko lang po yun dahil, marami akong kakilala na nagtatanong tungkol dito na may asawa sa pinas na sinusuportahan. at sa tingin ko lang din po, dahil nga wala na silang ibang option na magawa at natakot silang mahuli na wala sa oras, kelangan na nilang kumapit sa patalim kahit magbayad para lang magka-visa. hindi ka man sang-ayon dito pero baka may ma-isuggest ka na option aside from pauwiin sila sa pinas.
Kapag yumaman ka na,invite mo naman ako for a drink.
----> hindi lang for a drink, magpapa-party ako sa Velfarre, Roppongi. for sure kasya tayong lahat ng mga TF members dun. pati si raiden na nasa states padalhan ko ng ticket para join din siya. hehehe! joke lang po… magbibusiness nalang ako sa pinas at ayaw ko nang bumalik dito.
taki
01-18-2006, 12:51 AM
@ dkid, adechan, depp at sa iba pang members na dati ring bilog
pede po ba ninyong i-share yung personal experience nyo sa pagbibilog at kung pano kayo nagka-visa? i would really appreciate that.
@ miles
ok lang po ba malaman kung nahuli ka o sumuko? pinag-sisisihan mo ba ang pag-bibilog mo noon?
para sa lahat…
sa tingin ko, ang amnesty lang ang tamang kasagutan sa problema ng mga bilog ngayon kung gusto naten na maging legal ang hakbang na pipiliin. sa pamamagitan ng inyong tiwala, dasal at suporta, hindi imposibli na makamit ito ng kapwa nating Pilipino na bilog sa Japan tulad ng nangyari sa ibang bansa. ang tanong po ngayon kung pano naten sisimulan ito? may nag-quote dito tungkol sa amnesty program sa bansang italy. baka pede nating pag-aralan iyon at makakuha ng mga ideas.
magtulungan po tayo na maiparating sa mga kinaukulan. ang media ay isa sa pinaka-maimpluwensiya na medium of communication. meron na bang nag-feature sa isang documentary program sa TV tungkol sa mga buhay ng Bilog sa Japan? pede siguro tayong humingi sa kanila ng tulong para mabuksan ulet ang issue na ito at maipahiwatig sa ating gobyerno ang problema tungkol dito na isa sa mga dapat bigyan nila ngayon ng pansin kung hindi man ito bibigyan ng pansin sa bansang Hapon.
pointblank
01-18-2006, 02:57 AM
… pero ewan ko ba kung bakit may iba talagang member dito na hindi na ata marunong umunawa. nabibingi na ako sa kakadinig sa kanila na mali, illegal, hindi tama, kulang nalang sabihin nila umalis na kayo dito dahil nakakasira kayo sa imahe ng mga Pilipino. pero ang nakikita ko pansarili lang pala. mapalad kasi sila kaya madaling sabihin yun at hindi nila naranasan yung hirap na dinaanan ng mga bilog.
Dear people,
Konting lamig lang po ng ulo … at maging mas objective na rin … let’s not jump to conclusions and put words into people’s mouths …
Saying “mali, illegal, hindi tama” is not the same as saying “umalis na kayo”. Kahit na kaibigan mo ang isang tao, o kahit na mayroon kang pag-uunawa, a fact is a fact. Anong gusto mong marinig? “Tama yan, legal yan, hindi yan mali”? Hindi unawa ang tawag diyan kundi pagsisinungaling.
We are all trying to be understanding towards this common problem. Kailangan siguro ay bawasan naman ang “victim complex” ng mga posters na panig sa overstay.
Si adechan na mismo ang nagsasabi na “illegal is illegal”, in bold letters pa. Siguro naman ay mas hindi masakit tanggapin ang mga salitang yan, coming from a former kapwa-overstay.
sa tingin ko, ang amnesty lang ang tamang kasagutan sa problema ng mga bilog ngayon kung gusto naten na maging legal ang hakbang na pipiliin. sa pamamagitan ng inyong tiwala, dasal at suporta, hindi imposibli na makamit ito ng kapwa nating Pilipino na bilog sa Japan tulad ng nangyari sa ibang bansa. ang tanong po ngayon kung pano naten sisimulan ito? may nag-quote dito tungkol sa amnesty program sa bansang italy. baka pede nating pag-aralan iyon at makakuha ng mga ideas.
I have already pointed out a very probable scenario should Japan for some reason suddenly grant an amnesty program. Only skilled and professional workers who fit into one of the existing visa categories will be allowed to continue to stay in Japan. Blue collar workers will simply be forgiven for their overstay, then be allowed to go home without penalty. Sa tingin ko ay hindi mangyayari na magbibigyan ang isang tao ng visa para maging waiter o part-timer lang.
Hindi applicable ang kaso ng Italy o France o US atbp, because all these countries allow blue collar workers to work in their countires. You can be a maid in Italy, a chambermaid in the UK, a hardhat in the US. Not in Japan. In principle, Japan only allows foreigners to work here if the job cannot be performed by a Japanese. Potential employers must justify why they are hiring a foreigner. Japan is very unlikely to change its entire immigration policy even if it grants amnesty.
Please do not misinterpret me: I am not against amnesty. I am not denying the right of amnesty to overstaying Filipinos. I am merely pointing out the logistic difficulty of the amnesty program. If you only want to hear “feel-good” information, then you are only blinding yourself. The best way to achieve a solution is not to pat yourself on the back, but to consider all possible obstacles to your goal - and this necessarily means playing devil’s advocate and seeing things from a negative side as well.
v_wrangler
01-18-2006, 10:51 AM
We all have a choice, and the quality of life that comes after that will all be dependent on the choices we make now. But if we do come across hardships or trouble… isa lang ang payo ko, Ganbatte but remember “Hito no sei ni suru na!”.
Personally, talagang nagtataka ako at categorically, iisa lang ang nakikitang solution ni taki, and that is an all out support for an amnesty. I cannot have a say on that because I am not on the giving end. But even if I am, how can I forgive somebody who hasn’t even admitted the faults nor shown remorse. Much less act like its something to be demanded. hey, Life is not a one-way street. You have to look at life and all opportunities around it. Bakit kaya hindi pagtuunan ng pansin ang pagkuha ng oportunidad sa Pilipinas? O kung wala man, ang pag-gawa ng sariling oportunidad? Hindi kaya, sa kadahilanang mas gugustuhin ng Pilipino ang paggawa ng madaling pera? Talaga bang para nang North Korea ang Pilipinas at halos pagala-gala ang nga tao sa kawalan ng trabaho at makakain? O talagang bobo na ang pinoy at hindi na alam kung paano magtanim at gamitin ang sariling kamay sa paglikha? O baka naman sa kadahilanang wala na sa Pilipinas ang matatalinong katulad ni Taki para makaisip ng bagong paraan para magkaroon ng ikabubuhay? Bakit?
On the employers side, totoo ang sinasabi ni pointblank na you have to offer something na hindi maio-offer ng locals before the government allows you to work here. My company did a lot of that - in order for us to be able invite Flipinos to work here. As a nation that cares for its people, Japan has to maintain a balance of the workforce - they also have to make sure that one job they give to foreigner would not mean a job taken away from its national. Gov. Ishihara who was once a staunch oppositionist ng foreign people in Japan, has suggested to the government the easing of the Permanent residency paths for foreigners who have graduated from the Japanese Universities. A closer look, would imply that they want to make full use of these brains as para sa ikagaganda ng bansa. There are many programs in place, isa na diyan yang easing ng blacklisting, dati-rati ay limang taon yan, binawasan nila para maging isang taon na yata.
So how is the Japanese immigration going to have more control? Read (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060111/wl_nm/japan_fingerprinting _dc).
Raiden
01-18-2006, 02:16 PM
nalulungkot lang ako o nasasaktan sa mga nababsa ko dito,kaya ayaw kong sumilip dito,sa a to a incident na thread din,at dun pa sa 1 thread,kalimitan negative side ng mga bilog o nag-bilog ang mababasa ko.
pwede naman po tayong mag-give na lang ng advise o magsermon,wag na lang magsalita ng masakit.me nasasaktan po.
nagbilog po ako,pinatawad ng bansang japan at eto na po ako ngayon.positive side na ngyari sa pagbibilog ko,ang anak ko na syang dahilan nun ay isa na pong intl.flight stewardess.2 yrs.na po sya sa trabaho na yun at the age of 22.
inuulit ko lang po,huwag na tayong magsalita ng masakit sa kapwa,dahil pare-pareho lang tayong mga pilipino.alam ko ang hirap,dusa,dugo at pawis ng pagiging bilog.
tama yung sinabi ni adechan,kahit bilog o visa holder,me masamat mabuti.
Depp, I’m very sorry if my posts hurt your feelings. 
My aim is not to pour salt on an open wound, but rather to open our eyes to the root causes of the misery our country and our people are experiencing.
Please don’t think that I’m a selfish and sanctimonious prick, because despite of the assumptions that some of you may have about me, I’m just a Pinoy who wants to improve the current condition of our country, which I believe is corelated to the way we perceive things.
I’m happy to hear that they gave you a break. O di ba mas maganda ang pakiramdam ng pagiging legal kaysa noong lingon nang lingon na parang laging may nagmamasid?
depp
01-18-2006, 04:34 PM
Depp, I’m very sorry if my posts hurt your feelings. My aim is not to pour salt on an open wound, but rather to open our eyes to the root causes of the misery our country and our people are experiencing.
Please don’t think that I’m a selfish and sanctimonious prick, because despite of the assumptions that some of you may have about me, I’m just a Pinoy who wants to improve the current condition of our country, which I believe is corelated to the way we perceive things.
I’m happy to hear that they gave you a break. O di ba mas maganda ang pakiramdam ng pagiging legal kaysa noong lingon nang lingon na parang laging may nagmamasid?
you dont have to say sorry,me fault naman talaga kami e.tsaka mas me point naman sinasabi mo.meron lang akong nababasa na lahat na lang ng kwentong pangit about bilog or nagbilog ang naisusulat.parang walang naging maayos na buhay na ngyari sa isang bilog.
pero ok na yun,its that what they saw and think.
yah,tama ka mas masarap ang pakiramdam ng pagiging legal.
pasencya ka na,di ko maintindihan ibang english mo,kinakapa ko pa,hehehe.
H.S.lang po tinapos:D
depp
01-18-2006, 04:40 PM
[quote=taki]@ dkid, adechan, depp at sa iba pang members na dati ring bilog
pede po ba ninyong i-share yung personal experience nyo sa pagbibilog at kung pano kayo nagka-visa? i would really appreciate that.
yah sure,taki.pero ang haba nun.next taym pag sinipag magtype,ok lang?saka,depress lang ako ngayon kaya parang walang pumasok sa utak ko,huhuhuhu:(
Raiden
01-18-2006, 04:49 PM
pasencya ka na,di ko maintindihan ibang english mo,kinakapa ko pa,hehehe.
Pasensiya na po Depp. Mas madali kasi minsan ang flow kapag Ingles. Pero mula ngayon sisikapin kong limitahan ang mga Ingles sa mga posts ko. Para makapag-chikahan tayo.
depp
01-18-2006, 04:56 PM
Pasensiya na po Depp. Mas madali kasi minsan ang flow kapag Ingles. Pero mula ngayon sisikapin kong limitahan ang mga Ingles sa mga posts ko. Para makapag-chikahan tayo.
ay,bait naman mo naman,Raiden.huwag na,baka mahirapan ka.pero para sa chikahan blues,sige.hehe:D
california ka nga pala,once in a month bumababa ang baby damulag ko jan.den stay sya sa hotel na malapit lang sa airport.tigil sya ng mga 3 days.
ay, ot na po,sensha na po.
miles
01-18-2006, 05:20 PM
Mabuhay !!! and Taki san Mabuhay ka!!
Kahapon masakit ang ulo ko, at lalong sumakit ng mabasa ko yung ibang opinyon ng ating mga kapatid, sori po kung naging defensive kaming may mga karanasan sa pagiging BILOG.
Yes, I was surendered, ng malaman kong sapat na ang naipon ko para makapagsimula at makapag patayo ng negosyo, sumuko na ako, wala akong planong magtagal, tinaningan ko na hanggang 3 at 2 taon lang ako at uuwi na ako. di naman ako nagsisisi taki san na nag - BILOG ako dahil ok naman ang kinalabasan nito.
Ang pinagsisishan ko kung bakit ako umuwi??? he:D…he:D …namiss ko tuloy yung yuki sa nagano.
why don’t we invite all people out there na BILOg o naging BILOG, share your experience, bad or sad or happy moments. I’m sure it will serve as open eye 2 all na nagbabalak mag over stay dyan. I’m sure maraming gustong mag share.
miles
01-18-2006, 05:49 PM
yes adechan, Mabuhay ang mga BILOG na may dignidad!!!
Pero kahit may dignidad ka na natatapakan pa rin yon at ang masakit kapwa din natin pilipino ang tumatapak. Kung minsan hinahayaan na lang na matapakan dahil kung lalaban ka pa sa immigration ang bagsak. at babalik sa Pinas na luhaan. Sana hindi na lang ganon, sana unawaan na lang, at sana tulungan na lang.
Pero natutuwa naman ako sa mga pilipino na tumutulong at walang humpay sa pagtulong sa mga less fortunate na pilipino dyan. Let’s vow our heads to them Mabuhay kayo!!!
v_wrangler
01-18-2006, 05:59 PM
yes adechan, Mabuhay ang mga BILOG na may dignidad!!!
Pero kahit may dignidad ka na natatapakan pa rin yon at ang masakit kapwa din natin pilipino ang tumatapak. Kung minsan hinahayaan na lang na matapakan dahil kung lalaban ka pa sa immigration ang bagsak. at babalik sa Pinas na luhaan. Sana hindi na lang ganon, sana unawaan na lang, at sana tulungan na lang.
Pero natutuwa naman ako sa mga pilipino na tumutulong at walang humpay sa pagtulong sa mga less fortunate na pilipino dyan. Let’s vow our heads to them Mabuhay kayo!!!
Hindi ito directly sagot sa post ni miles (congrats nga pala at parang ok na ok ka na)
Papaano ba magsalita para di sabihin na nananapak ng kapwa pilipino? Kase parang ang dating, kapag nagsalita ka na negative tungkol sa pagiging isang illegal alien - Isa ka ng marupok at walang kakompa-compassion sa mga naghihikahos?
Dapat pa bang magsalita? Tanong ko lang ha - di nangaaway.
pointblank
01-18-2006, 08:08 PM
Papaano ba magsalita para di sabihin na nananapak ng kapwa pilipino? Kase parang ang dating, kapag nagsalita ka na negative tungkol sa pagiging isang illegal alien - Isa ka ng marupok at walang kakompa-compassion sa mga naghihikahos?
Dapat pa bang magsalita? Tanong ko lang ha - di nangaaway.
This will be my last post in this thread, kahit na ano pa ang sumunod. Pagod na ako sa kakaulit ng paliwanag.
Tutal, hindi naman pinakikinggan. Kahit sa anong diplomatic na paraan mo sabihin out of consideration sa feelings ng iba, pinipilit na i-misinterpret ka pa rin. Naririnig l
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